What Makes Him Tick..."Greng Jai"

[Dodger]

I wonder what kind of response one gets when asking Thai friends to explain GRENG JAI?

After reading your question I walked in the next room and asked my partner Jai. This is how he responded:

"Greng jai is when a Thai doesn't want to ask for something because maybe it will embarrass the other person. He went on to say "greng jai is when Thais are shy about saying too much and always want to put the feelings of the other person first".

After he finished I said to him..."that being the case, then why did you ask me to buy you grilled squid when I went to the market this morning?". He just laughed and said "because "I am the boss"...

[Jun]

Just like most other countries, Thailand and the others being discussed are gradually drifting away from some of the old strict Buddhist teachings that were passed down from their ancestors, especially some of the more superstitious and symbolic components of Buddhism - in favor of a more modern approach. I think a lot of this can be credited to the internet and social media which has broadened their knowledge base tremendously.

It's complex.
There are similar traits that I see everywhere from Thailand to Japan.
Then differences from country to country.
To an extent, people adapt to the expectations of customers.
Behaviour evolves with time and particularly since Steve Jobs got on that stage in 2007.
Then every single person is different.

The differences between two Cambodian bar boys can be enormous.

Most of the ASEAN people I speak to are still working lads from Cambodia or Laos.
There's no way I would select boys with the same methods I used 15 years ago. I've also adapted. It seems many others have done the same.

[Dodger]

Of course, I'm sure there are many things farang do that to Thais also probably defy explanation.

Good point!

To be honest I've seen farang doing things that baffle me more than the Thais...ten fold.

Like sitting in a public venue in the heart of the Land-of-Smiles and never once smiling or acting jai dee to anyone, or inviting a boy to sit with them at their table with other farang friends - and then totally ignoring the boy as if he's a door-stop. See that one all the time. Zero greng jai on the part of farang like this...they're just blind to their own blindness.

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."

- Donald Rumsfeld

[Gaybutton]

Good point!

To be honest I've seen farang doing things that baffle me more than the Thais...ten fold.

That too is a good point and you're right. I've seen far too many things some farang do and the way some treat the boys - all kinds of things that belong on my "I Don't Get It" list.

I fail to understand what makes them tick - and I hope I will never understand it . . .

[Dodger]

Fortunately (for everyone) most farang the boys interact with are really jai dee...treat them exceedingly well...and display greng jai without them even knowing it. This of course equates to "good karma" and any/all interactions with the boys after this will almost assuredly be of a higher quality.

Then there are some farang, few as there are, who exploit the working boys by treating them poorly, pontificate sexual expectations like the Lord-of-the Manor talking to their servant, and then tip them poorly as well - always putting their own selfish needs in front of the boys. Obviously this results in nothing but a bucket-load of bad karma.

The boys rarely make negative comments about undesirable farang like this which has always impressed me. That is greng jai. But, being from Chicago, I tend to call a spade a spade.

[Jun]

uThen there are some farang, few as there are, who exploit the working boys by treating them poorly, pontificate sexual expectations like the Lord-of-the Manor talking to their servant, and then tip them poorly as well - always putting their own selfish needs in front of the boys.

This works both ways.
There are a small minority of boys, typically from Cambodia, who want a commitment on how much they're going to get tipped, whilst being elusive about what they do in return.
Fortunately, they're quite rare and that problem is solved by selecting a different boy.

I suspect the farang who treat boys badly are also a minority.
Anyone sensible customer would ask a boy what he likes to do before going to the room and if the lad isn't keen on what the farang wants, move onto the next boy.
However, once the boy has said he does X, Y and Z, subject to decent hygiene, it's not unreasonable to expect X, Y and Z. But not always a given.

Those who have been using the apps for a few years ought to know how get hookups where both parties usually keep their promises and everyone's happy.

[Dodger]

Anyone sensible customer would ask a boy what he likes to do before going to the room

I've never once asked a boy a question like this, nor do any of my farang friends who still butterfly and play the apps continually. Having said that, I think it's fair to say that this is a personal preference - rather than to imply that customers who don't do this are not being sensible.

It's always been my contention that anyone who is self-confident and knows how to be jai dee doesn't have to subject a boy to these types of questions in order to have a fulfilling encounter. All questions like this do is reflect a person who ONLY CARES ABOUT WHAT HE WANTS, with little or no regard for anything else - including the boys feelings. This of course applies to hooking up with boys at public gay venues.

A question I have for anyone who feels these questioning techniques are necessary is: If the service a working boy in Thailand provides is almost always considered great, with very few exceptions (as almost everyone claims), then why are these questions necessary?

[Gaybutton]

I think it's fair to say that this is a personal preference

I don't see anything wrong with asking a boy what he likes. For me it's perfectly fair to say this is a personal preference because that's exactly what it is. If I want him to please me, I like to be able to please him too.

Two things I always tell boys I'm meeting for the first time:

1. I will never try to have you do anything you don't like to do.
2. I cannot be happy unless you are happy too - not just me.

It never takes them long to see that I'm telling the truth. And I really don't enjoy it at all unless they are enjoying it too - and I mean truly enjoying it, not just faking it because they think that's what I want to hear.

[Jun]

I've never once asked a boy a question like this, nor do any of my farang friends who still butterfly and play the apps continually.

The farang who write or talk about CURRENT butterfly activities usually do ask what a boy likes doing. They're the ones who I find relevant to the multi national bar scene of 2024.

No matter how many times the same tiresome advice is repeated, I doubt many will be abandoning what they have learnt in the last 15 years.
Times change and adapting to the changes is all part of the fun.

[Dodger]

I don't see anything wrong with asking a boy what he likes.

Sorry...I misspoke.

After re-reading what I posted I noticed an error on my part in how I worded it.

I agree that asking a boy WHAT HE LIKES is both honest and shows consideration for the boy as well. Nothing wrong with that at all.

What I find disturbing is when a farang tells a boy WHAT HIS SEXUAL EXPECTATIONS are - and then tries to get the boy too commit to this...followed by the boys performance being judged before the farang decides what how much to tip him. This is what I believe the boys dislike, and frankly, this is what I find appalling.