Plastic bags on their way out

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Jun
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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

Post by Jun »

Paper bags are supposed to be worse for the environment than plastic.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47027792

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stkyricesf
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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

Post by stkyricesf »

My observation is the shopping plastic bags are not the major problem, it's the little plastic bags they sell food and drinks in. But if they concentrate on that it would put the street food vendors out of business.

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

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stkyricesf wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:37 am
But if they concentrate on that it would put the street food vendors out of business.
Also if they ban the styrofoam food containers. I hope, but I'm not holding my breath, that Thailand does ban the plastic bags and styrofoam, but first offer some sort of environmental friendly substitutes that would also be vendor and customer friendly - and also wallet friendly so that the vendors won't be forced to raise their prices.

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

Post by Dodger »

stkyricesf wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:37 am
My observation is the shopping plastic bags are not the major problem, it's the little plastic bags they sell food and drinks in. But if they concentrate on that it would put the street food vendors out of business.
I totally agree.

The food items which are wrapped in plastic must account for >99% of the plastic flowing out of these super markets, which eventually end up polluting the environment. To me, it's an asinine gesture on the store's part to stop using plastic bags, when, in fact, half the goods you're buying from them are still being wrapped in plastic.

The only way a real contribution to the environment can be made is for the stores (all stores) to stop their suppliers from using plastic. Not an easy undertaking, but this will not stop until the major food chains, and other major retailers, start telling their suppliers that they will not longer be purchasing their supplies unless they're packaged in biodegradable materials. Some food chains in the U.S and Europe have already embarked on this with great success.

Jai and I try to only buy products which are not wrapped in plastic. Also, not an easy undertaking. We used to buy various frozen vegetables, french fries, etc., which are sold in plastic bags, but have stopped doing this and just buy fresh vegetables at the ,market, and make our own french fries. We also buy eggs which don't have those plastic covers, even though they're a pain in the ass to carry, for the same reason. We have our own shopping bags made of biodegradable material which can be purchased for about 30 baht at most stores. Two years ago we installed a water purification system in our condo which stopped us from tossing about a thousand plastic water bottles in the trash every year. Thinking Green!

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

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Dodger wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:10 am
we installed a water purification system in our condo which stopped us from tossing about a thousand plastic water bottles in the trash every year.

Throwing out those plastic water bottles is actually good. I don't know about condos, but in most Thai residential neighborhoods the trash pickers come along every day and one of their prime targets is the empty plastic bottles. They collect them and sell them to recycling centers, so they do get recycled.

Of course, the environment would be much better off if there were no longer any plastics to recycle, but recycling is better than nothing.

I understand that getting rid of the plastic bags isn't going to put much of a dent in the problem, but as I said, at least it's a start - which is definitely better than just ignoring or even denying the problem as if it doesn't exist - like the sainted Donald Trump does . . .

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

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Here in BKK many stalls/places don't do those styrofoam boxes anymore. Another kind of bio-degradable alternative is used-and of course cost a few bt more. Here the BMA has more sweeping powers-and uses them too-as what I see in most other cities and on rallies/festivities and the like, this is now the norm.

In all 7s-where you can sit and spend a little more time, there are constant messages that they will stop giving out plastic bags as per 1/1. Ditto at Tesco. And even in both Thai and English.

There is a fairly efficient waste collection, doing daily rounds and even sweeping rubbish out of the canals on a weekly basis and water-spraying main streets and sidewalks monthly or so. Prisoners on probation are used to dig out and make them flush again for the sewers in the street.

But the major problem is waste management-whereas anything saleable, again water bottles, glass bottles etc. are sooner or later collected by trash-searchers (many who earn around the min wage doing that in touristy centres here), but they also tend to make things even more messy than before the search.

And, uh, just in - the EU also has pretty strong rules for how to dispose of waste and recyclables. The UK was/is the backward child in that field, even worse as several east-eur countries. So the Brexiteers can claim victory that Brussels soon will not rule them anymore and make an even greater rubbish-heap.

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

Post by Gaybutton »

For those of you looking for biodegradable bags - trash bags, pet droppings bags, etc, there are many available on Lazada ( https://www.lazada.co.th ) and they're no more expensive than non-biodegradable bags. Some are even less expensive.

Biodegradable bags usually decompose in 3 to six months, whereas non-biodegradable bags can take hundreds of years to decompose.

If you're interested, Lazada carries many more biodegradable products besides only waste bags. Maybe after January 1 the stores will start carrying such products. So far, I've seen none anywhere other than ordering via Lazada.

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

Post by Jun »

pong wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:06 pm
The UK was/is the backward child in that field, even worse as several east-eur countries. So the Brexiteers can claim victory that Brussels soon will not rule them anymore and make an even greater rubbish-heap.
Depends who you compare the UK with. We're way ahead of most Asian countries.
Recycling includes papers, card, plastics, glass, batteries and metals. There is a separate collection for food waste to be composted.
We have a mandatory 5p charge for plastic bags.

On much more critical issues, CO2 consumption per capita is below that of Germany and less than 1/3rd of US levels. The largest offshore wind capacity of any country in the world helps.

Whether or not we use biodegradable plastics is fairly minor compared with the urgent CO2 issue. Arguably, using non-biodegradable plastic, reusing it and disposing of it properly at the end of life is probably best.

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

Post by Gaybutton »

Some retailers have already been easing into the discontinuance of providing plastic bags. Some provide plastic bags only on certain days. Some stopped providing plastic bags on their express lines. Some now give plastic bags only upon request. Makro is on the list below, but as far as I know they have never provided plastic bags.

I've seen durable, reusable shopping bags being sold for as little as 19 baht each. Villa Market used to give away fabric bags. I still have mine and often use the one they gave me. They stopped providing them for free some time ago. Now they sell them. I forget how much, but I think they sell for around 50 baht or so.

I suggest buying a few of those shopping bags now. The closer we get to January 1, the more likely there will be a last minute run on them. If Murphy's Law prevails, just when you need them the stores will be out of stock. So get them while there are still plenty of them readily available. And don't forget to take whatever you'll need with you whenever you go shopping.

Of course, all of the retailers and even vendors could easily provide biodegradable bags. Judging from the prices I've seen on Lazada they're quite cheap and probably much cheaper when bought in wholesale bulk. I would imagine all, including the vendors, could do that without having to raise their prices or raise them by an insignificant amount, but I have seen none anywhere providing biodegradable bags.

Here's another happy little thought that occurred to me - sooner or later the reusable bags will start wearing out. When they do, won't that eventually create yet another pollution crisis when people replace them and dispose of the worn ones?

In my opinion, this whole thing is only an exercise in futility unless all plastics are eventually replaced with biodegradables. I believe the technology necessary already exists, so I hope that happens. And along with it, replacing gasoline and Diesel engines with clean renewable resource burning engines wouldn't be a bad idea - assuming there are even enough renewable resources to provide for all the vehicles in the world on the road now and in the future.

I hope the world wakes up and gets serious about all this, and does so in time, before we pollute, climate change, and global warm ourselves into extinction. If it is only going to be too little, too late, I wonder how long it will be before the world can say bye-bye to humans. If that happens, I'm glad I won't still be around to see it.

Here's a list of the 75 Thailand retailers that will stop providing plastic bags as of January 1, 2020:
____________________________________________________________________________________

Thailand reminds consumers of the January 1st due date when many retailers stop providing plastic bags

By Adam Judd

December 21, 2019

Around 75 brands under the Thai Retailers Association will stop providing plastic bags from January 1 in a bid to reduce the whopping 13.5 billion, or 30 per cent, of plastic bags used in Thailand annually.

The Department of Pollution Control added that 40 per cent or 18 billion plastic bags come from the fresh market annually, while the rest 30 per cent of 13.5 billion bags come from local grocery stores. In Bangkok alone, each person uses eight plastic bags on average per day, creating around 80 million pieces of plastic waste daily.

Thai Retailers Association decided to introduce a campaign titled “Every Day Say No to Plastic Bags”, under which all its 75 members will stop providing such bags through 24,500 distribution channels, hoping to drive the country closer to a plastic waste free society starting next year.

The list of 75 participating retailers is as follows:

1. CP All Plc, 2. Central Department Store Ltd, 3. The Mall Group Ltd, 4. Foodland Supermarket Ltd, 5. Siam Makro Plc, 6. Tesco Lotus Ltd, 7. CRC Thai Watsadu Ltd,8. CRC Sport Ltd 9. Central Food Retail Ltd, 10. Central Marketing Group Ltd, 11. B2S Ltd, 12. Powerbuy Ltd, 13. Robinson Plc,14. Big C Supercenter Plc, 15. Rangsit Plaza Ltd, 16. Bangchak Retail Ltd, 17. Chaisaeng Superstore, 18. Chaisaeng Department Store, 19. K&K Superstore Southern Plc, 20. Jamfah Savemart Ltd, 21. Chumphon Ocean Group Ltd, 22. CJ Express Group Ltd, 23. CPF Trading Ltd, 24. COL Plc, 25. Central Watson Ltd, 26. Central Family Mart Ltd, 27. TMK Kanjanaburi Trading Ltd, 28. Thanapiriya Plc, 29. Boots Retail (Thailand) Ltd, 30. PTT Retail Management Ltd, 31. Mother Marketing Ltd, 32. Wannakij Charoen (2000) Ltd, 33. Watcharawan (2008) Ltd, 34. Saha Lawson Ltd, 35. 108 SHOP, 36. Office Mate Plc, 37. Akeworanant Ltd, 38. FN Factory Outlet Plc, 39. Isetan (Thailand) Ltd, 40. Aeon (Thailand) Ltd, 41. Index Living Mall Plc, 42. Home Products Center Plc, 43. Villa Market JP Ltd, 44. Property Perfect Plc, 45. Imperial Plaza Ltd, 46. Imperial Department Store Ltd, 47. Siam Speciality Ltd, 48. Siam Takashimaya Ltd, 49. Taweekit Supercenter Ltd, 50. Klang Plaza Jomsurang Ltd, 51. Bangkok-Tokyu Department Store Ltd, 52. Ekapab Super Supply Ltd, 53. Ekapab Inter Electric Ltd, 54. UFM Fuji Super Ltd, 55. Dohome Ltd, 56. Bigsong Superstore Ltd, 57. Saengthai Prae Ltd, 58. Sahathai Department Store Ltd, 59. Sahasaengchai Marketing Ltd, 60. SR Super Mart Ltd, 61. Tang Ngee Soon Superstore, 62. Ekapab Home Mart Ltd, 63. Amporn Department Store, 64. Klanglan Limited Partnership, 65. Tantraphan Supermarket (1994) Ltd, 66. Yok Intertrade (Chiang Mai) Ltd, 67. Krabi Benjamin Limited Partnership, 68. SL Wholesale Ltd, 69. Sentosa Ltd, 70. Super Cheap Trading Ltd, 71. Roi Et Hypermart Ltd, 72. Sin 2000 Chaiyaphum Ltd, 73. Kiatsin Wholesale Ltd, 74. Don Quijote Ltd, 75. Central & Matsumoto Kiyoshi Ltd.

https://thepattayanews.com/2019/12/21/t ... stic-bags/

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Re: Plastic bags on their way out

Post by TomUK »

About 30 years ago Sainsbury's sold shopping bags for a fiver. I bought one and it is still in use when I do my weekly shopping, although it is now starting to show signs off wear and tear.
A while ago they introduced their bags for life made of receycled plastic. I think they cost about 50 pence. After about half a dozen uses they are already ripped to shreads. So I have given up on these and instead also use bags made from cotton or other fabric. I got these from shops in Germany and some of them I have been using for 25 years already.

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