Thai will

[Gaybutton]

If they somehow managed to buy the property in the name of a company without even setting the company up, that's reckless.

That is precisely what many did years ago when they could get away with setting up a Thai corporation in name only and purchased property that way. I believe that is now illegal. I don't know if there are retroactive consequences, but it would come as no surprise to me if that is what happens.

[Jun]

That is precisely what many did years ago when they could get away with setting up a Thai corporation in name only and purchased property that way. I believe that is now illegal. I don't know if there are retroactive consequences, but it would come as no surprise to me if that is what happens.

Not just whether that is legal or not, but wouldn't you want to ensure you can prove you own the company that owns the property ?

If someone hypothetically bought a property in the name of JunCo, which does not exist, what stops someone else setting up JunCo and causing a lot of trouble ?

[Gaybutton]

Not just whether that is legal or not, but wouldn't you want to ensure you can prove you own the company that owns the property ?

People did that to circumvent the law, which still exists, prohibiting foreigners from purchasing property or houses. Purchasing a condo was legal provided the number of foreign owned units did not exceed a certain percent of the available units.

In my own case, it was entirely my money that paid for this house, but I was not the technical owner. I did it with a highly trusted Thai friend and the house is in his name. What I was able to do via an attorney, was set up a rental contract showing I have rented the house for 30 years, paid in advance (which was the equivalent of US $250), and it was all registered in the land office. Perfectly legal and nothing shady about it.

Regarding your question the obvious answer is yes, provided I own the property legally in accordance with Thai law. Otherwise I would want my name out of it and wouldn't want to have involved myself in it at all. To me, the setting up a corporation that was going to be only an empty shell to circumvent the law - that didn't seem kosher to me, which is why I opted to do it the way I did it. My way was, and is, fully legal. However technically I am not the owner.

I would not recommend doing it my way unless it is with a Thai friend you have known long enough and can fully trust.

Now, if you buy an expensive enough visa, I believe that would permit you to buy and own a house. As far as I know, that still is the only way to legally own a house under your own name in Thailand. I don't know anyone who has actually done that.

[2lz2p]

Because of Thailand's prohibition against foreigners owning land and allowing condominiums to have 51% ownership of the units, many foreigners have set up a Thai limited company to purchase a land plot or condominium unit. In such cases, Thailand requires that 51% of the shares be owned by Thai nationals. Consequently, they use Thai "nominees" to create the company limited (Lawyers setting up these companies arrange for the nominees, usually several individuals who don't know each other; otherwise they could get together and take control). It is also my understanding that Thais acting as nominees can be criminally prosecuted.

Recently, Thai authorities have cracked down on businesses using a similar set up requiring dissolution of the companies. It appears that the article's author is referring to the "company owned" properties as being flawed and in cases where the company's shares are being willed to their beneficiary(ies) is resulting in closer scrutiny during probate.

[Gaybutton]

I think, in his post just above, 2lz2p has it exactly right. I believe there has been talk at government levels about increasing the number of units that can be foreign owned, but if that is the case it is also the usual - just talk, but no action.

So, what it amounts to is if a foreigner is leaving a piece of property that he doesn't truly own legally, the beneficiary gets nothing when it goes to probate. I don't know what becomes of the property, but whatever, the beneficiary doesn't get it.

[Dodger]

Recently, Thai authorities have cracked down on businesses using a similar set up requiring dissolution of the companies. It appears that the article's author is referring to the "company owned" properties as being flawed and in cases where the company's shares are being willed to their beneficiary(ies) is resulting in closer scrutiny during probate.

That's exactly how I read it as well.

This would probably be a good topic at a PEC Meeting:

Foreigners, especially newcomers, should understand clearly that condo's in Thailand can only be purchased LEGALLY if they are available with a Deed (chanote) either in a foreign or Thai name. Emphasizing the fact that buying a condo in a company name (one which only exits on paper) is not recognized as being legal in Thai law.

Bottom line: A person inheriting a condo with this type of deed (company owned) has just inherited an absolute nightmare.

[Dodger]

I wonder what percentage of expat retirees actually have any desire to have a Will in Thailand?

I'm saying this because well-over half of the expats I know either don't have any sizeable assets in Thailand, and/or they don't have a "significant other" in Thailand to leave their assets to when they pass away. Considering the fact that many expats reside in rental properties and don't own any vehicles or other expensive assets.

I have one friend who's been retired here for close to 20 years who purchased a toaster once at Big C. With that exception, he owns absolutely nothing. Every thing is rented, including his boys (tongue in cheek).

My guess (a sloppy dart toss) is that only around 20% of expat retirees have both; a) sizeable assets in Thailand and b) close relationship with a Thai national who they'd like to Will their assets to. With 80% who don't.

I guess for those who have sizeable assets - but no close relationship(s) with a Thai - they can always donate their assets to a charity like Father Ray's...or possibly Grindr...

[2lz2p]

I wonder what percentage of expat retirees actually have any desire to have a Will in Thailand?

I'm saying this because well-over half of the expats I know either don't have any sizeable assets in Thailand, and/or they don't have a "significant other" in Thailand to leave their assets to when they pass away. Considering the fact that many expats reside in rental properties and don't own any vehicles or other expensive assets.

I guess for those who have sizeable assets - but no close relationship(s) with a Thai - they can always donate their assets to a charity like Father Ray's...or possibly Grindr...

I have one Expat acquaintance who is donating his condo to a charity. For those retirees that use 800k in a Thai bank, they should have a will to either donate to someone here or as mentioned to a charity. It is my understanding, if they do not have a will, Thai law takes effect. Only the closest surviving class inherits:

Descendants — children, grandchildren
Parents
Full-blood siblings
Half-blood siblings
Grandparents
Uncles and aunts

Thus if the deceased has family in their own country, then any of the above would be the heir.

I queried AI for what happens to a bank account if there are no relatives or the relatives are in another country but choose not to participate in probate with the following results:

1. If the deceased has no relatives at all
If no statutory heirs exist under Thai law (no spouse, no children, no parents, no siblings, no grandparents, no uncles/aunts):

The estate becomes “ownerless property” under Thai Civil and Commercial Code Section 1623. The Thai government (the State) becomes the heir of last resort. The bank will not release the money to anyone except:
A court-appointed administrator, or The State, after the probate process confirms no heirs exist.

This is rare, but it does happen — especially with foreigners who have no family in Thailand.

2. If the deceased has relatives, but they are in another country and do not participate in probate
This is more common, especially for expats whose heirs live overseas.

What actually happens:
The bank freezes the account as soon as they are notified of the death.

No one can access the money until a Thai court appoints an estate administrator. If the relatives do not file for probate, then:
The estate remains frozen indefinitely, or After a long period, the State may eventually claim the funds as unclaimed property

So if no will or relatives willing to participate, the Government or the bank gets any funds in a Thai bank account. As to other personal property (clothing, computer equipment, etc), my guess is the landlord will probably take it.

[Dodger]

For those retirees that use 800k in a Thai bank, they should have a will to either donate to someone here or as mentioned to a charity.

Excellent point.

Many of the expats I know do in fact use the 800k method. So regardless if they have other assets or not, just the 800k in-and-by-itself would be greatly appreciated by a local charity or close Thai friend.

To me, the best part about having a Will is that once it's made, you can put this stuff out of your mind and just focus on enjoying life. That is of course until topics like this raise their head...555

[Harald]

Thanks a lot for all responses.