Retirement visa extension update

[Dodger]

......I don't understand that. That's why I keep repeating my question. What is the incentive to use an agent, especially for those who do have the 800,000 baht?

There's very little incentive for those who comply, thus the reason one could assume that a fair percentage of expats who use agents most likely have compliance concerns.

I have one friend, bless his heart, who can't even work the remote for his TV - let alone arrange all this documentation for a trip to Immigration. So for him the use of an agent is strictly for convenience.

[Gaybutton]

As to GB's last comment, I agree completely. It would be nice if they could set up a system whereby after one does several one year renewals they then be allowed to extend for a longer period, say after first 5 years one would qualify to do it say every 5 years thereafter.

Giving it some consideration, it occurred to me it might actually be to immigration's advantage to do that or an even longer period of time. If we're in Thailand on a retirement visa, then we're probably no longer "spring chickens" and none of us are getting any younger. Every year we do the retirement visa, immigration gets 1900 baht. If we are unfortunate enough to pass on during that year, then your last extension is also the last time immigration gets 1900 baht.

But if they offer us a 5 year or 10 year or whatever visa, no doubt we would have to pay for it in advance. Obviously it would cost much more than 1900 baht. So if we pass on at some point during the validity time of the visa, immigration has still made a lot more than 1900 baht.

Maybe we'll get lucky one of these days if immigration ever has a similar thought and makes us an offer . . .

[Dodger]

......I assume you mean per month. That would still be unbearable. Enough for subsistence living, but no further "trade".

Sorry for the error. Yes I meant 35,000 THB/month.

Yes, that would be unbearable to you and I , but what about the guy who doesn't have a choice???

The farang I've rubbed elbows with over the years who survive on this little income clearly live better quality lives during their retirement in Thailand than they would back on their home turf. And that was before global inflation hit us.

I always think of my old friend Eddie from England when this conversation comes up. He and his Thai wife Da stay in a building in S. Pattaya where I used to rent a place. Eddie is a retired taxi driver from London...receives a very modest retirement pension of 32,000 THB average/month, and Da earns a modest income working as a cleaning person at the same building to supplement their combined income. They love cooking out and hosting small parties for the building tennants...travel up to Isaan frequently to visit her mom and feed the chickens...enjoy frolicking along the ocean at sunset...and seem to be enjoying life to the max.

If Eddie were to have retired in London he probably wouldn't have a darling partner like Da by his side...would be staring out a window eating discounted food products...and only be frolicking along the ocean in his dreams.

The problem that some guys have after retiring here using the 800,000 THB bank method is that they can't afford health insurance on their modest incomes and end up using part (or all) of their 800k savings (falling out of compliance) when a medical concern arises and then need an agent to make things work for them. I could be wrong, but I see this as a common reason why some farang use agents for their visa extensions.

Also...most of the guys I know who use agents pay 10,000 - 14,000 THB for their annual extensions. I'm assuming this is for the premium service.

[Gaybutton]

most of the guys I know who use agents pay 10,000 - 14,000 THB for their annual extensions. I'm assuming this is for the premium service.

I hope it's very premium service considering the bottom price for agent service is 5 times the price of the visa itself. I agree that the only two things that make any sense to me about using an agency would be if you either can't meet the qualifications or you don't mind spending the money for the convenience.

Back to one of my questions - maybe this time I can get an answer. If using an agent for the convenience, just what is the convenience? What does the agent do - specifically - that makes it convenient and worth the money?

[Dodger]

......If using an agent for the convenience, just what is the convenience? What does the agent do - specifically - that makes it convenient and worth the money?

Hopefully someone who uses an agent can answer this.

I imagine saving their client a trip to Immigration and making sure all the paperwork was in order is the bulk of it. Doesn't sound like much, but to a person with a medical handicap this could be an enormous help.

[Gaybutton]

I imagine saving their client a trip to Immigration and making sure all the paperwork was in order is the bulk of it.

What I'm wondering about more than the rest of it is how the agencies get around the requirement that the applicant appears personally when submitting the application for the retirement visa extension. I can't imagine what the convenience would be if the applicant has to appear personally anyway.

Among the reasons I wouldn't want to use an agent is that apparently they can get the retirement visa for people who don't meet the qualifications. That makes me wonder what happens, whether using an agent by necessity or for convenience, if immigration ever decides to crack down on that and go after not only the agencies, but those who obtained their visa via an agency. I wouldn't speculate on the likelihood of that ever happening, but I wouldn't want even a remote possibility of my visa being revoked hanging over my head.

[Dodger]

Understanding the role of the "Agent" in Thailand is critical to understanding how the corrupt underpinnings in the Kingdom are glued together.

Agents who handle visas are connected to the provincial immigration office at the hip. They are, for all practical purposes, working as off-site extensions of Immigration. That's why farang who use Agents for visa processing don't have to go to Immigration themselves. Their Agent, who is an arm of Immigration is serving that purpose.

There are Agents in Thailand that can fulfill just about every need, including situations where there are legal compliance concerns. We all know that. I'm not going to discuss those details here - but will say that this is probably one reason why expats use agents to renew their annual retirement extensions. Others of course simply want the convenience.

The only way to operate in Thailand without "risk" is to FOLLOW THE LAW - NOT THE PRACTICE.

Agents should be used for "convenience" only. Nothing more - nothing less.

If a foreigner can't comply with the legal requirements for retirement in Thailand they shouldn't retire in Thailand. The alternative is to accept the "risk" of using an Agent. And that would be the same risk that everyone has who's foolish enough to buy a one-way ticket on the Tea Money Express.

Up2U

[Gaybutton]

Agents who handle visas are connected to the provincial immigration office at the hip.

I think you are probably correct, but that is another thing that puzzles me. Some of these visa agencies are farang owned. Unless they have a Thai who technically owns the agency on paper, how do they get to become visa agents? Even if fully Thai owned, I also don't know how Thais get to become visa agents.

In any case, personally I think it is best, if you can, to do everything involving immigration legally, legitimately, and do it yourself rather than use an agent. That is risk free.

I really don't know what is legal and what is not. I used a visa agent to get my new passport. If the USA accepted whatever the agent did, then I think it was all legitimate and certainly did not involve tea money.

However, about a year from now my driving license will expire. I could get the next license myself, as I have always done, but I am probably going to use an agent for that - for the convenience. The fee, at least at MOTS, is 3000 baht and to me that is money well spent to avoid all the associated hassle. I think that is relatively risk free and I don't believe it is illegal. I could be wrong, but I'm not worried about taking that risk.

[Dodger]

......However, about a year from now my driving license will expire. I could get the next license myself, as I have always done, but I am probably going to use an agent for that - for the convenience.

If you fully comply with the Thai legal requirements for obtaining (or renewing) a Thai drivers license - and are simply using an agent for the sheer convenience there is no risk involved IMO. I do the same thing myself.

Your question: "How does a Thai become an agent". Number one answer = family connections.

[Gaybutton]

Your question: "How does a Thai become an agent". Number one answer = family connections.

I see. In other words - One big happy family (happy to lighten your wallet for you, that is) . . .