Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

[2lz2p]

Benjamin Hart from Integrity Legal in Bangkok has a YouTube Channel and has included several videos about the rule change regarding Expat and Thai income tax. On Wednesday, February 12, he gave a presentation to the Pattaya City Expats Club. Barry Kenyon was present and has written an article for the Pattaya Mail, which GB will, no doubt, soon post on that thread.

For those interested in viewing his presentation, the PCEC has posted it on their YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEKyMQKNT1U.

[Gaybutton]

Barry Kenyon was present and has written an article for the Pattaya Mail, which GB will, no doubt, soon post on that thread.

Yes indeed. It's there now. https://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic ... 48#p116448

And it is quite the same as some of us have been saying all along - that expats living on pensions and Social Security have nothing to worry about and don't need to do anything any differently regarding taxes than they always have.

And there still hasn't been so much as a single word from the Thai government. Unless some word from the government comes, I, for one, will not be bothering to register for a Thai tax ID number.

[Dodger]

As Benjamin stated enthusiastically 5 times during his talk:

"If it's not broke don't fix it".

[Gaybutton]

Pattaya Mail EDITORIAL
____________________

Speaking Hart to Hart

By Pattaya Mail

February 16, 2025

Integrity Legal’s Benjamin Hart certainly struck a chord with his address to the Pattaya City Expat Club on February 12. His aim was to challenge much of the alleged nonsense about foreigners paying personal income tax on overseas income transmitted to Thailand from January 1 2024. Since, he has received almost 20,000 hits on Pattaya Mail’s news website as well as on the Expat club video forum which published the talk in its entirety.

It is obviously true that you are inevitably assured a strong following when you say what people want to hear. In a very different context, The Reformation’s Martin Luther in the sixteenth century was successful in his attacks on the Roman papacy largely because “he said aloud what many people were thinking anyway”. Hart’s credibility in the tax context is enhanced by his Thai citizenship and his rhetoric in putting down foreign accountants whose only interest, he claims, lies in grabbing your cash and pre-empting taxation on global income wherever located.

The essential point is that Thai tax law did not change on January 1 2024, but only the Thai Revenue Department’s interpretation of a detail. Transferring foreign cash to Thailand had long been potentially assessable provided it was sent in the same year it was received, a fact that many expats were totally unaware of. The difference now is that the transfers are potentially assessable sent not in the year of receiving, but in any later one too. A primary (not sole) purpose of TRD in its reinterpretation is to catch companies or individuals with huge offshore assets who had used the loophole to avoid paying their dues.

Maybe the Thai government itself is rethinking its policy. Last week, the finance minister announced that he wanted Thais (no mention of expats) to send more of their overseas wealth to Thailand. Presumably, he was hinting at some sort of exemption for cash transmitted for specific investment purposes. For example, it would be useful if the current ambiguities concerning tax on transmitted cash to buy property (condominiums in the case of foreigners) were cleared up. But this is pure speculation, as is the suggestion that existing retirees in Thailand on specific visas could be “grandfathered” or exempted from further dues if they had proof of clearance from their home country tax authority.

In his speech, Hart did not guarantee his audience forever immunity from Thai personal taxation, even for retirees living largely or exclusively on pre-taxed assets. He hates the idea of taxes moving from remitted income to global wealth and loathes the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) and its worldwide tax agreements which Donald Trump has recently upended for the United States in an executive order. But nobody presently knows what Thailand’s policy will turn out to be. Hart, in his YouTube videos, has also raised the possibility that the Thai tax authority and immigration may eventually collaborate in checking who has spent at least half the year in Thailand, thus becoming a tax resident. He specifically mentioned the Destination Thailand Visa in his videos, but of course any future computerized checks need not stop there.

Competitor countries such as Cambodia and Vietnam look to be more-tax friendly to expats than Thailand but this is because they have neither invoked nor enforced their own rules which are potentially in play. The Philippines stands alone regionally in “guaranteeing” foreigners are free of tax on their transmitted overseas cash, but for how long? Wherever you want to live in the world and whatever the status of your finances, it’s wise to assume that being a member, however reluctantly, of more than one tax jurisdiction is going to become complicated as governments round the world look to boost revenue. Whether good or bad, today’s news is tomorrow’s history.

https://www.pattayamail.com/news/speaki ... art-490961

[2lz2p]

As Benjamin stated enthusiastically 5 times during his talk:

"If it's not broke don't fix it".

In doing so, he basically was telling his audience to ignore the tax rules as the risk of getting caught were minimal. This may not be such a good idea if you have assessable income under the Thai tax laws.

GB is correct re US social security as it is exempt from Thai Personal Income Tax per their Dual Tax Agreement with the USA. However, under that Agreement, only pensions for government service are exempt - private pension income is not exempt and is Assessable Income, thus taxable in Thailand. The UK Agreement also exempts pensions for government service BUT does not exempt the UK State Pension which is very similar to US Social Security. Likewise, Thailand's Agreements with other countries vary and in some cases do exclude all pensions.

Should one ignore the requirement to pay Thai Personal Income Tax if they have a liability - in making that decision, you may want to be aware of the Penalties involved if you do not file a Thai Personal Income Tax Return and you do owed taxes. Also, regarding the risk of being caught, that may well be the case today, but with computer enhancements, etc. that may not be so in the future. It is my understanding the Statute of Limitations for Taxes owed is 10 years - so, the Revenue Dept can conduct an audit and impose penalties for up to 10 years after the due date for the Tax Return.

The Pattaya City Expats Club (PCEC) has just redone their webpage on this subject. It provides some useful information on how to determine if you have assessable income and how to calculate your tax liability, if any. It also has information on the penalties that can be imposed for not filing - 2,000 baht if you don't owe any taxes, much more if you do. Visit their new webpages at: https://pcec.club/Expat-and-Thai-Income-Tax.

Next Wednesday, 5 March, the PCEC will have returning Thomas Carden and a Thai lady that is a tax professional from his staff to give another update on Thai Personal Income Tax issues. In their last presentation, they recommended that those who remitted money into Thailand file a Tax Return even if it came from a tax exempt source. Although the tax form has no place to put non assessable income and the Revenue Dept has not issued any guidance (yes or no on need to file), they suggested a statement be attached stating the amount remitted and why it is exempt to be on the safe side in case the Revenue Dept does decide a return should be filed.

I have decided to ignore that suggestion. In my case, my money comes from social security and a government service pension. Thus it is exempt under the Thailand/USA Agreement. If the Revenue Dept contacts me and said I should have filed, the maximum penalty imposed would be 2,000 baht, which I am willing to risk having to pay.

[Dodger]

.......In doing so, he basically was telling his audience to ignore the tax rules as the risk of getting caught were minimal. This may not be such a good idea if you have assessable income under the Thai tax laws.

I like what he's saying because they (Finance Ministry/Revenue Dept) don't even know what the rules are themselves yet...and by the time they do figure it out we'll all be dead.

Like you, my income in Thailand is not assessable and I plan to do exactly what Mr. Hart is recommending...which equates to nothing. If I did have assessable income I still wouldn't be running to get a tax ID until further credible clarification is provided.

[Gaybutton]

I plan to do exactly what Mr. Hart is recommending...which equates to nothing.

So do I. I get very annoyed when all the "experts" are busy advising expats to do this, do that, not do this, not do that, and busy frightening people when we still have not heard so much as one word about it from anyone in any kind of authority in the Thai government. Not one of these "experts" yet know anything more than the rest of us know - which is we know nothing any different from the way it's been for many years.

The reality is nothing whatsoever has changed regarding expats and Thai taxes from the way it's been throughout all my years in Thailand.

Once again, until and unless the Thai government tells us what we need to do, as far as I know there is nothing necessary to do.

[Jun]

Like you, my income in Thailand is not assessable and I plan to do exactly what Mr. Hart is recommending...which equates to nothing.

That's easy if your income is also exempt under the DTT. Which incidentally looks like it's written by government employees for their own benefit.

I'd imagine those who potentially have a high tax bill are thinking much more carefully about whether or not they move to Thailand. I know of at least one who is not currently in Thailand due to the tax rules.

[Dodger]

I'd imagine those who potentially have a high tax bill are thinking much more carefully about whether or not they move to Thailand. I know of at least one who is not currently in Thailand due to the tax rules.

I don't want to sound too cavalier about this - but it's all in the planning.

[Jun]

I don't want to sound too cavalier about this - but it's all in the planning.

You might be right and even if you're not, it sounds like your pension is protected by the treaty.

Anyone who might have a large tax bill should at least look more carefully at the tax rules.
The uncertainty has to be damaging any prospects of attracting more HNWIs to Thailand.

As it stands, Thailand has succeeded in turning an attractive tax regime into an unclear mess. The uncertainty will drive people away, yet they're not currently collecting the taxes? If I understand correctly.

The idea is usually to do the exact opposite. Collect some tax, without driving people away.