By Barry Kenyon

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Mega changes ahead for Thailand’s Elite visa

By Barry Kenyon

August 1, 2023

The Thai Elite visa, which offers multiple-entry stays between five and 20 years, will totally replace its current packages on October 1 2023. Founded by then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2003, Thailand Privilege Card Company is wholly owned by the Ministry of Tourism and Sports. But a new senior management team at Elite has decided to introduce unprecedented changes.

All new applications for Elite must be made by September 15 under the existing application rules: after that it will be too late. Current holders of the popular Elite Easy Access – a five year visa available for as cash payment of 600,000 baht – have until August 15 to transfer to a longer Elite visa, usually for 20 years: after that it will be also be too late.

No official announcement has yet been made to detail what the new October 1 Elite visa packages look like. Enrolment and renewal fees are likely to rise as the principle of Elite has always been to attract high spenders, wealthy expats and global citizens. The number of packages, some of which include deals for expat families as well as individuals, may well be reduced or combined.

Scrutiny of application details will almost certainly be intensified. Currently, files are checked against the Thai immigration database and information held by Thai embassies abroad. This referral might be extended to Interpol after it was found necessary to cancel some Elite members who were involved in “grey” businesses or fraudulent or criminal international activity. Other memberships have been refused to some Elite holders whose original visas were for study or voluntary work – sometimes dubiously issued for untraceable cash during the Covid pandemic.

Membership of Elite programs stultified in the few thousand members for many years, but zoomed to over 20,000 in 2022 and is now thought to be nearing 30,000. Well over one third of recent applications are from Chinese citizens, but Thai MPs and tourist authorities have both complained publicly about abuses. For example, visa agents in Chinese cities have been offering under-the-table Elite visas in return for mammoth cash sums. Some abuses have been linked to corruption in Thai immigration and disreputable language schools enrolling absentee learners.

Clarification is also needed on regular working in Thailand by Elite holders. Elite does not offer work permits as part of any deal, although one program Flexible Plus has offered access to Department of Labour permits in return for a US$1 million investment in property, the stock exchange or companies. Government policy does allow non-work permit holders to attend occasional business meetings or organize events, but the parameters are ambiguous and largely untested. The Thailand Privilege Card Company has promised to explain the brand new framework well in advance of the October 1 inauguration.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... isa-437205

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Top Thai cop urges retirement visa rules to be tightened

By Barry Kenyon

August 2, 2023

Thailand’s best known crime cracker, police general Surachate Hakparn, has openly stated that one year retirement visas and extensions of stay are plagued by out-of-date regulations and corrupt practices. In an interview with the Bangkok Post, the deputy national police chief said that the requirement to have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, or its equivalent in annual foreign remittances, was too low as it failed to screen quality applicants. Police general Surachate added that “window dressing” of applicants’ bank accounts was a serious problem as visa agents and even some immigration officers colluded by providing short-term “loans”.

He continued that he would propose to the new Thai Cabinet that the 1979 immigration act, which still governs some visa practices, be replaced. Police general Surachate did not detail his policy recommendations for retirement visa extensions apart from emphasizing that the entry bar was set too low and was too easily circumvented. The context of his interview was the all-importance of getting rid of foreign motorbike gangs plaguing Pattaya, Phuket and Koh Samui in particular. Sociologists call this approach “deviancy amplification” as it highlights one particular criminal issue in order to justify policy action against a much wider group in society.

Police general Surachate’s observations have struck a chord as he is a former commander of both the tourist police division and, for a short period, the immigration bureau in 2018-19. In the past few years, there have been occasional attempts to toughen the bureaucracy for retirees such as introducing compulsory medical insurance for some visas and extensions – notably the “O/A” retiree option initially issued by a Thai embassy – and by checking bank books three months after the granting of an annual extension. But the efforts were largely non-consequential.

Although there are several visas suitable for single or retired retirees including Elite, Long Term Residence and Spouse options, the annually renewable retirement visa issued by the immigration bureau is far and away the most popular owing to its cheapness and easy availability for foreigners over 50 years. But it will likely be many months before policy revisions, if any, appear in the public forum. Concerns are already being raised about “the baby being thrown out with the bath water”. Most Thai retirees are elderly men 65-90-plus with no interest in joining a foreign mafia or even boarding a motorbike. Except perhaps to go to the pub.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ned-437233

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Pattaya immigration is always a chaotic mob scene after holidays close it for a day or two. This time it was 6 days, so you can imagine. If you need to go to immigration, unless it is imperative you go now, I suggest waiting until Wednesday at the earliest, and go in the late afternoon when it will be less crowded.

The immigration officials do the best they can, but obviously the people numbers have long since outgrown the facility, which is under-staffed as it is, with only a few staff trying to ride herd on overwhelming numbers of people - and then after a while they tend to get short tempered. After all, they are only human. So, whatever you do, just smile and accept whatever they tell you - and do NOT argue with them - ever!

We can only hope sooner or later much of what necessitates a visit to immigration today will eventually be handled by online apps, but so far no sign of new apps coming.
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Huge queues at Jomtien-Pattaya immigration office

By Barry Kenyon

August 3, 2023

The six days of holiday resulted in a big backlog of Jomtien immigration customers at the reopening on Thursday August 3. The neighbouring photocopying and visa services bureau was overwhelmed with many foreigners requiring photos and/or extra copies of documentation for visa extensions.

Friday August 3 will again see crowding of immigration facilities in Jomtien, especially for visa extensions and local address reporting. All immigration offices nationwide will then be closed for the upcoming weekend but will be open all next week (Monday thru Friday) without public holiday interruptions.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ice-437329

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Thailand’s Elite visa seeks to redefine a wealthy tourist

By Barry Kenyon

August 8, 2023

Big changes lie ahead for the Thai Elite visa. Following “careful consideration with stakeholders”, all programs will be discontinued to be replaced by totally new options from October this year. Those hoping to qualify under the current rules will need to submit their applications by September 15, whilst those already with 5-year Elite visas have until August 15 to extend to up to 20 years under the former regulations.

The Thailand Privilege Card Company, which hosts Elite, has not yet published the future criteria, but there have been strong hints. Firstly, the prices will rise substantially, perhaps 900,000 baht for five years (instead of the current 600,000) and five million baht for 20 years (instead of one million plus). In return, members will likely receive privileges rather like airmiles – the more you spend and the more frequently you visit Thailand the happier you will be with the perks. Those with the “el cheapo” five year Elite visas will likely not be delighted.

But Thailand will have to be careful not to price itself out of the worldwide expat market. It already offers a competitor visa, the ten year Long Term Residence run by the Board of Investment, which has not been a rip-roaring success to date with virtually no hard data published. Golden visas, however defined, need a lot of perks to compete internationally and no Thai proposal currently offers residence or a second passport, unlike the Indonesian and Cambodian equivalents. Certainly, bonuses such as fast-track airport services, freedom from the 90 days report and discounts at leisure facilities are unlikely to be enough if Elite enrolment fees rise steeply.

The real point about Elite visas is that what counted as a “rich foreigner” in 2003 at inception is very different from perceptions today. 20 years ago, the flat fee was 500,000 baht and enrollers were told they were indeed someone special. The numbers of subscribers remained in the 2 or 3 thousand range until the Covid pandemic illustrated to the international community, Chinese in particular, the benefits of being able to move easily between countries. Today there are around 30,000 Elite members, all classes, with more than one third being Chinese nationals. The rebranding of Elite is doubtless linked to China and Asia rather than to Europe or the USA.

Many on social media believe that the forthcoming rebranding of Elite is a bluff and little more than an attempt to boost new applications before the September 15 cut-off date. This scenario is unlikely. Thailand’s whole immigration system is clearly under review with the deputy national police chief recently predicting that annual, easy-coasting retirement visas – either a modest 800,000 baht cash in the bank or use of agents – will soon come to a shuddering halt. Separately, those with a dubious record in their visa history – for example absentee education students or voluntary work visas – are finding it difficult to obtain extensions or transfer to alternative permissions, including Elite.

Another imponderable concerns comprehensive medical insurance. Currently, the Elite visa (unlike Long Term Residence or “O/A” non-immigrant retirement) does not require cover. Nor does the annual extension of stay based on “O” retirement given by the immigration bureau. Already Cambodia has announced the establishment of a government working party to explore compulsory medical insurance for all foreigners who stay in the country beyond 30 days. Whilst it is true that Thailand’s visa structure for millions more foreigners is much more complex and certainly easier to circumvent, expats choosing Thailand from now on must be prepared for mega-change. Unwelcome as the prospect may be.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ist-437690

[Jun]

until the Covid pandemic illustrated to the international community, Chinese in particular, the benefits of being able to move easily between countries

Of course, during the covid pandemic, there was a period when only Thai nationals were allowed to enter Thailand.
Which clearly demonstrated that the Elite privileges can be withdrawn, even if you have paid for it.

Today there are around 30,000 Elite members, all classes, with more than one third being Chinese nationals.

The less you trust your own government, the more value being able to live in another country has.

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expats choosing Thailand from now on must be prepared for mega-change. Unwelcome as the prospect may be.

I'm not sure what Barry means by that. To me, an important question is whether the upcoming changes will apply only to first-time retirement visas or will apply to all expats regardless of how many years they have already lived in Thailand under the retirement visa. The way I see it, the wording of what Barry says can be interpreted both ways.

I usually agree with Barry, but he's calling the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account a "modest" amount. Not to me it isn't. 800,000 baht is the equivalent of over US $23,000 at current exchange rates. Maybe to some that's a modest amount, but to me that's a hell of a lot of money to have to keep locked up and untouchable.

Insurance requirements may also force many expats out if they have been living without medical insurance. Many expats are already beyond the age when obtaining medical insurance is affordable or even possible to get at all.

Many expats are already greatly upset and envisioning worst case scenarios. I'll postpone getting upset until we know what kinds of requirements we are going to have to face.

Remember - so far making changes has only been suggested by "Big Joke". That doesn't mean anything is really going to happen or happen within the foreseeable future. Nothing has changed at all yet.

[Jun]

"Modest" depends on what you compare it with.
Keeping 800,000 in a bank account is modest compared with, for example, paying a fee of 600,000 for 5 years membership of an "Elite scheme". Once the 5 years is up, the 800,000k farang still has his money, whilst the "Elite" farang doesn't.
I suspect that's the comparison Barry Kenyon is making.

Also, for any new retiree who has just sold a house in his home country, the 800,000k ought to be affordable. For example, the median US house price is $416,000.

In principle, a country ought to be able to set whatever financial criteria it likes for expats, however to be fair and reasonable, any increases ought to be announced a long time in advance and be predictable. Keeping it at 800,000 for many years and then threatening a sudden increase is not predictable. Ideally the framework is set for the duration of your retirement.

Also, whilst it is perfectly reasonable for a country to require foreign residents to have some assets or income, specifying that those assets must be in a bank account, is not ideal, considering the inevitable low returns.

Of course, if the 800,000 baht sum goes up, I guess it drives more people to the agencies who circumvent the whole requirement, for a fee of about 14,000 baht. It wouldn't surprise me if that's their objective.

[Gaybutton]

Of course, if the 800,000 baht sum goes up, I guess it drives more people to the agencies who circumvent the whole requirement, for a fee of about 14,000 baht. It wouldn't surprise me if that's their objective.

I agree with your post except for this part. It would surprise me. The ability for these agencies to circumvent is one of the things "Big Joke" specifically says he wants to end. He doesn't seem to me to be the type who would be coming up with this for the sake of the agencies. To me, he seems the type trying to do precisely the opposite.

I don't know why everybody seems to be assuming this is going to happen and it is virtually a done deal simply because "Big Joke" wants it. He has no authority to unilaterally change immigration law. I think it is premature for people to get themselves all upset about it.

I also am not so sure the powers-that-be would support any increases in the money rules. 800,000 baht suddenly is not enough? I don't buy it. Also, the more money we are forced to keep locked up in a bank is less we have available to spend. What does Thailand want us to do, hoard money or spend it helping the Thai economy?

[Jun]

The ability for these agencies to circumvent is one of the things "Big Joke" specifically says he wants to end

Words are easy. What matters is action. If he really wanted to end the corrupt practices, he could try doing something that might work.
1 Move the application, processing & payment on line.
2 Ask the applicant to supply details of the bank account that has the 800,000 and have the tax collecting authorities check & certify it with software. (Don't allow immigration to do it)
3 Close the immigration office.

Or:
A) Has he made any proposal to stop the corruption ? (not that I can see)

B) Would raising the 800,000 baht requirement increase or decrease bribes raised via agencies ? (Considering the agencies provide an alternative to the 800,000 baht requirement).

[Gaybutton]

What matters is action.

I believe an incoming government, if they ever decide who it's going to be, is going to have much more to deal with and bigger fish to fry before worrying about immigration law changes.

Your ideas make sense, but I think you know as well as I do that none of it is going to happen.

The agencies are big business. They are not going to take lightly proposed changes that could cut them out.