Retirement extension

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2lz2p
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Re: Retirement extension

Post by 2lz2p » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:06 am

Today, I saw a posting on Thaivisa.com showing copies of an inquiry to and answer from Bangkok Bank regarding domestic ACH transfers through the NY Branch. Basically, they will continue through August for personal transfers and until January 2020 for Gov't/Pension transfers. It is post #650 at: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/105025 ... t-14340461

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by 2lz2p » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:45 pm

2lz2p wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:48 am

However, based on Up2u's post, I may switch back to using a domestic ACH transfer through Bangkok Bank's NY Branch until it actually ceases to work - I've been monitoring a Thaivisa.com thread on the subject and so far, there have been a few reports from others that successfully sent transfers through Bangkok Bank's NY branch this month.
I decided to go with Transferwise instead of trying Bangkok Bank NY Branch ACH. I did the transfer on afternoon of 1 August -- it arrived on 5 August and the receipt showed it went direct to my Bangkok Bank Account. I received my usual text message when it was deposited to my account (only receive text messages when I get an International transfer).

At the time I made the transfer, I automatically checked "living expenses" for the reason, but I saw something later on Thaivisa.com as I recall, that mentioned TW has added another reason -- to meet Thailand Immigration Requirements. Hmmm, I don't know if that is something they have done so their system will send directly to Bangkok Bank or Kasikorn Bank accounts if that is where the sender's account i located -- But, sounds reasonable to avoid all the contacts they have rec'd in past and could receive in future from expats here asking them to note on their account to send their transfer direct. But, as mentioned, they have repeatedly told folks that they can't always guarantee that it will go direct as sometimes they encounter technical difficulties and can't send it direct. It's my understanding this happens when there are technical problems that will prevent them sending it direct within the timeframe for their guaranteed exchange rate at time transfer was ordered.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:38 pm

2lz2p wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:45 pm
At the time I made the transfer, I automatically checked "living expenses" for the reason, but I saw something later on Thaivisa.com as I recall, that mentioned TW has added another reason -- to meet Thailand Immigration Requirements.
I just had a look at TransferWise. Yes, they have indeed added the following to the list of reasons for the transfer:

"Funds for long term stay in Thailand".

I'm glad to see that TransferWise does listen and respond to requests for help and acts quickly. I hope that is good news for those who wish to use the 65,000 baht per month or combo method for retirement visa renewals.

Since I had already transferred in my funds for this month before becoming aware of this option, I don't know if that will cause the transaction to show as international, but I'm guessing it will. Why else would they have added that? Of course, I hope someone can verify that the transaction will show as international. I won't be able to verify it myself until my next transaction at the end of the month.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by traveller123 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:11 pm

I use Transferwise from the UK into my Bangkok Bank account here in Thailand.
Yesterday I checked my latest receipt into my BB account.
I originated the transfer on Sunday using living expenses as the reason.
It was received into my BB account yesterday Tuesday 6th August.
The BB entry description was "Interbank Transfer via Smart".
Checking back the same description was applied to my July transfer.
June and earlier were described as "International Transfer"

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:02 pm

traveller123 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:11 pm

I originated the transfer on Sunday using living expenses as the reason.

The BB entry description was "Interbank Transfer via Smart".
Now we need to find out what the description will be when using "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" as the reason.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by 2lz2p » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:40 pm

traveller123 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:11 pm
It was received into my BB account yesterday Tuesday 6th August.
The BB entry description was "Interbank Transfer via Smart".
After your July transfer was not coded FTT (International Transfer), did you contact Transferwise (TW) and ask them to code your account to send future transfers direct to Bangkok Bank? This is what I did and they said they had coded my account, but could not always guarantee that it would go direct to Bangkok Bank as they sometimes encounter technical difficulties that necessitates they send to another partner bank - my second July transfer went direct to Bangkok Bank as did my August transfer. In both those cases, I noted it was for "living expenses."

You can check your receipt to see if it went through Kasikorn bank, which then transferred it to your Bangkok Bank account - thus the Smart transfer notation for a domestic transfer. You can probably access the receipt by logging into your TW account OR open the email TW sent to you saying your money was on its way -- this email should contain a link to see the receipt (you will get a log in screen and then it will go direct to the receipt). Scroll down the receipt and it will show Kasikorn Bank as being the Intermediary (TW partner bank) for your transfer (I have read that in addition to Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn Bank, that TMB is also a partner bank, but not sure if that is the case). Since the receipt is a pdf file, I download it to my hard drive to save it on my computer.

I will be doing another transfer soon and plan to use the Thai Immigration option as the reason for the transfer -- However, if it goes direct to my Bangkok Bank account, there is no assurance that using that option is why because as mentioned, I had contacted them and they have coded my account to send my transfers direct to Bangkok bank. But, it appears that since they added that as an one of the reasons, they would have their system set up to send the funds direct rather than through a partner bank -- of course, if your bank is not one of TW's partner banks, it would still show up as a domestic transfer since TW sends it to one of their partner banks, which would then send it on as a domestic transfer.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:28 pm

2lz2p wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:40 pm
You can check your receipt to see if it went through Kasikorn bank, which then transferred it to your Bangkok Bank account - thus the Smart transfer notation for a domestic transfer.
After reading your message I checked my own receipt. Mine went through TMB to get to Bangkok Bank. TMB is Thai Military Bank, so apparently TransferWise has partner banks other than only Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn Bank.

I really don't see why all the fuss about it if you can prove the source of your income. Immigration's interest is your money originated from a foreign source. I doubt they really care whether it says foreign or domestic in your bank passbook as long as you can prove the source of the money and can show why it says domestic in your bank passbook.

If you cannot prove the source, that may be a different matter, especially if the amount coming in each month is highly variable.

Meanwhile, I doubt it will take immigration very long to catch on to what is really happening if they start getting a lot of complaints from foreigners. I can't believe immigration is going to believe all of a sudden the retired farang population suddenly all found jobs in Thailand and coincidentally is earning essentially the same amount of money that has been coming in from a foreign source all this time.

Then again, with immigration you never know, and that's why despite the fact that in my own case I can easily prove the source of my income, I'm still going to stick to the 800,000 baht method.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by traveller123 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:25 pm

@2NP

Prior to July my transfers showed International Transfer.
In July I had no reason to suspect things would be any different.
It was only seeing the recent posts on here which caused me to check back, I sent an e mail to Transferwise on Monday asking what had changed. They have acknowledged it but not replied as yet.
I do use the 800,000 baht method but want to be aware how to excercise my options if I need to use any of that money to cover medical costs not covered by my health insurance policy.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by 2lz2p » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:21 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:28 pm
I really don't see why all the fuss about it if you can prove the source of your income. Immigration's interest is your money originated from a foreign source. I doubt they really care whether it says foreign or domestic in your bank passbook as long as you can prove the source of the money and can show why it says domestic in your bank passbook.
Pattaya Immigration wants a letter from your bank listing all foreign deposits to your account - it appears that is all they will accept. If you had your deposit sent through one of their partner banks (Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn, & TMB) and it shows up as a domestic transfer in your bank, it is very unlikely that your bank will list the deposit, even if you show them TransferWise receipt. However, you may be able to get a letter from the intermediary bank verifying the source as being international - thus two letters to show proof. I personally doubt Pattaya Immigration will accept anything less - when I renewed in June, I had bank certified "statements" showing deposits - but, that was not good enough - I had to go to my bank Bangkok branch where I opened the account (Immigration Officer gave me a sample of the letter wanted and told my the branch where I opened the account was the only one that could do it for 12 month period).

Until we get reports from folks on their personal experience at Immigration - either trying to show TW receipts as proof and/or getting a confirming letter from the intermediary bank - what they will do or accept is an unknown.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:44 pm

2lz2p wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:21 am
Until we get reports from folks on their personal experience at Immigration - either trying to show TW receipts as proof and/or getting a confirming letter from the intermediary bank - what they will do or accept is an unknown.
What interests me most at the moment is what selecting "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" as the TransferWise reason will mean. If it causes the transfer to be listed as international in the bank passbook, problem solved.

Based on your post, it seems to me that what will or will not be accepted is not a matter of policy, but presently remains at the whim of the immigration officer. Again, that's my reason for sticking with the 800,000 baht method until immigration makes it clear what is acceptable for the 65,000 baht or combo method. Unfortunately, anyone using either of those methods still has no idea what he will be walking into when applying for the visa or renewal.

What used to be routine has now become a major mess, especially for those who cannot use the 800,000 baht method. And for those who can, who really wants to be forced to tie up 800,000 baht and make it virtually unusable? I sure don't like it, but if I want to be certain I can remain eligible for the retirement visa, I don't see that I have much choice.

I still blame the embassies much more than immigration for putting us into this situation. I have yet to see or hear a valid reason why we can't show proof of income and its source to the embassies and obtain the income affidavit. Even if you have to leave the proof documents with the embassy and wait a week or so, or however long it takes, for them to verify your proof, and even if you have to pay a fee for it, I would much rather do that than have to tie up 800,000 baht. But instead the embassies threw a lot of their own citizens to the wolves on this issue. And if the USA embassy wants to pass the buck and tell us they are acting on orders from the State Department, then who in the State Department issued those order and why?

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