The Trayvon Martin case

[Gaybutton]

I think you would have to be living on another planet not to be aware of the Trayvon Martin case by now. I'm wondering what your own thoughts are.

My own opinion is to reserve judgment until all the facts are out. The whole world has already demonized and vilified Zimmerman, but so far Zimmerman himself is the only person who really knows for sure what actually happened that night.

I've listened to that 911 tape enough times that I am convinced Zimmerman muttered "fuckin' coons" under his breath. I also believe nothing would have happened at all if Zimmerman had done what the 911 agent said and didn't personally confront the boy. I wish the 911 agent had been more emphatic. After he asked Zimmerman if he was still following the boy and Zimmerman said yes, instead of saying, "We don't need you to do that" I wish he had plainly said, "You are not to pursue the boy. Return to your home and let the police take care of it."

If you haven't listened to it yourself yet, listen and decide for yourself whether you hear Zimmerman mutter "fuckin' coons." Listen with your eyes closed. What do you hear immediately after Zimmerman says, "The back entrance"?



However, I don't see how it can be disputed that after being told not to and acknowledging he heard the instruction by saying "ok," Zimmerman did continue pursuing the boy anyway, did confront him, and whatever happened at that point, now the boy is dead. Even if Zimmerman's side of the story is absolutely true, in my opinion the entire incident is still his fault because he confronted the boy after the police told him not to.

I also think the police made a big mistake by not arresting him. The police said there is not enough evidence that he did anything wrong. I'm not a lawyer, but I thought whether there is enough evidence to pursue and prosecute criminal charges in a case like this is supposed to be up to a grand jury. Whether intentionally or not, I think the police really botched this one.

One aspect of this case that has been mentioned, really only in passing, probably because it is irrelevant to this incident, is that Trayvon Martin had been suspended from school. I have seen nothing that said why he was suspended from school.

At this point it is too soon to know how all this will play out, but Zimmerman has ruined his own life by trying to play policeman. People who know him have been saying he's a good man who is not a racist, but news reports have been saying if it can be proved that he really did mutter "fuckin' coons," then he is almost certain to be charged under the hate crimes laws. For those of you who may not be familiar with American slang, the word "coon" in that context is just as insulting and means essentially the same as the word "nigger."

I think former Florida Governor Jeb Bush actually hit the nail on the head when in his comments about this incident and Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law he said, "Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back."

Zimmerman's life is ruined no matter how it goes. Other than relatives, some neighbors, and a few people who know him, he is now the most hated man in the USA. If he is charged, tried, found guilty, and sent to prison, he'll have to be in constant fear for his life and I wouldn't bet a plug nickel on his chances of surviving. If he is found not guilty, his life will never be the same again and he'll still have to constantly be afraid to ever show his face in public again. If he is not even charged, he'll probably have to live in hiding and isolation for a hell of a long time, possibly the rest of his life.

In other words, when you think about being up Shit Creek without a paddle, Zimmerman doesn't even have the boat.

If he had simply called 911, reported his suspicions, and then let the police do their job, none of this would ever have happened. But Zimmerman chose to do otherwise. Look what it has cost.

[Undaunted]

If the situation was reversed and the boy was white the shooter would be behind bars, blatant racism!

[Jomtienbob]

The natural result of a state dominated by religious zealots who think that God loves them above all others. Just one of many laws written by Tea drinking idiots.

[Gaybutton]

One aspect of this case that has been mentioned, really only in passing, probably because it is irrelevant to this incident, is that Trayvon Martin had been suspended from school. I have seen nothing that said why he was suspended from school.

Now there are news reports about this aspect of the case:
_________

Trayvon suspended over marijuana; thousands expected at rally

By Frances Robles
[email protected]

SANFORD, Fla -- . Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy’s family attorney has confirmed.

Trayvon was killed while serving out the suspension in Sanford Florida, where his father’s girlfriend lives. A community watch volunteer who thought he looked drugged out and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him.


Full Story: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2 ... ayvon.html

[fountainhall]

This is all starting to sound suspiciously like "spin". I learned this morning that a witness has come forward to confirm that there was a struggle with both men on th ground. Yet, Martin was allegedly 100 pounds lighter than Zimmerman!

The "stand your ground" law is a nothing more than a licence to murder and not even get arrested for it.

[RichLB]

If this Stand Your Ground law states that one is permitted to kill another if they feel their well being is threatened, I wonder if some savvy lawyer could argue that killing a gay man is permissible on the grounds that some straight guy felt threatened by an approach from the gay guy.

[Gaybutton]

This is all starting to sound suspiciously like "spin".

News reports are also saying Zimmerman claims he did comply with the police officer who told him, "We don't need you to do that" and returned to his vehicle, but before he got there the boy attacked him and started punching him. Unless the boy has a history of violence, Zimmerman is going to have an awfully difficult time getting anyone to believe him.

The only way I would start buying his story is if forensic analysis can somehow prove the cries heard on the tapes are actually his, and not the boy's, as he claims.

Zimmerman still has three problems. One is Neighborhood Watch volunteers are supposed to call the police if they see something suspicious and nothing more than that. They're not supposed to be on foot, following someone and are not supposed to be out there playing Junior Policeman by carrying a gun, whether it was legal for him to be carrying it or not. He also has to deal with the "fucking coons" muttering, and when I listen to the tape it's perfectly clear to me that's exactly what he muttered. I don't see how it can be interpreted to be anything else. And, unless the girl who was speaking with the boy at the time was lying, she said the boy said he isn't going to run, but will walk fast. If he did indeed say that, to me it indicates he was trying to get away, not turn around and try to attack Zimmerman.

I don't believe this boy was a perfect angel, but I don't see what can alter the fact that all he was trying to do was walk home with his drink and his candy. Because of Zimmerman, he didn't make it.

Even if Zimmerman can not only prove his side of the story not only beyond a reasonable doubt, but also beyond any doubt, I don't think I'd ever want to be in his shoes.

The problem in the USA is too many guns available to too many people - too many of whom shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

George Carlin always says it best:

[lvdkeyes]

It took a month for this story to be concocted. Why don't I believe it?

[Alex]

However, I don't see how it can be disputed that after being told not to and acknowledging he heard the instruction by saying "ok," Zimmerman did continue pursuing the boy anyway, did confront him, and whatever happened at that point, now the boy is dead. Even if Zimmerman's side of the story is absolutely true, in my opinion the entire incident is still his fault because he confronted the boy after the police told him not to.

I don't think that this particular aspect really matters. Firstly, the 911 Agent (maybe a LEO, maybe just some hotline clown) wasn't there, so it's at least questionable if you have to follow their "orders" given over the phone. It's not the same like a police officer at the scene yelling, "Freeze!", in your direction. Secondly, you're exactly right that the order not to pursue should have been unambiguous, if indeed it was meant to be an order, not merely advice for his own safety.

One thing's for sure though, this will be an interesting trial, and it will be very interesting to see the jury.

[Gaybutton]

it's at least questionable if you have to follow their "orders" given over the phone.

If I call the police and the officer asks me if I'm following someone, and tells me not to, if whether I'm going to comply or not is questionable, then my answer to that question is yes, I'm going to comply. And I'll bet Zimmerman wishes he complied. And I'll bet he'll wish even more that he complied if he ends up in court and the prosecutor brings it up. The police officer might have been some "hotline clown?" Did you listen to the tapes? Did he sound like a "hotline clown" to you? It was Zimmerman who placed the call, wasn't it? Does it make sense to you that he would call an emergency number and then decide the person he was talking to was a "hotline clown," so therefore don't do what the "clown" says?

The Neighborhood Watch program is supposed to be for neighbors to watch out for each other. If the volunteers see or hear suspicious activity, their job - call the police. That's it. That's what they're supposed to do and all they're supposed to do. They're not supposed to pursue and confront, but that's what Zimmerman did. Even Zimmerman admits he asked the boy what he's doing there. WRONG! Zimmerman was supposed to call the police and let them do their job - nothing more. He wasn't supposed to be out there trying to be Clint Eastwood or John Wayne. The fact that he did resulted in killing a boy who was only trying to walk home and ruining his own life along with it. And just to add icing to the cake, he also managed to ruing the lives of Travon's family and his own family. Way to go!

What crime did Trayvon Martin commit? Was he trying to burglarize a home? Was he trying to vandalize anything? Was he trying to steal a car? Was he trying to hurt anyone? Was he doing anything at all other than walking? Was he doing anything at all that would justify Zimmerman trying to intervene?

He might not have been required to obey "orders" and he chose not to. He chose that for himself. Nobody made him do that, but once he did, look at the result. If a police officer tells me, "We don't need you to do that," then I'm not going to do that.

I don't discount Zimmerman's story about the boy attacking him, but based on what the girlfriend said and the fact that the boy was walking home with a soft drink and some candy, he'd have a tough time convincing me that his story is anything other than bullshit.

Zimmerman claims he was acting in self defense out of fear for his life. Under the circumstances, what else would he be expected to say? Does anyone really expect him to say, "Officer, even though I was told I don't need to do that, I didn't have to comply, so I followed him anyway. I confronted the boy. We got into a fight. So, I shot him. I'm sorry it worked out that way, but he was a stranger in my neighborhood and he refused to stop and start answering questions from some total stranger who confronted him in the dark when all he was doing was walking, minding his own business, and no threat to anyone. So, it's his own fault." ?