This may, or may not, be of interest to those posting here:
https://www.thaienquirer.com/50744/thai ... ting-2024/
Proposed changes to taxation
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billyhouston
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Gaybutton
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Re: Propsed changes to taxation
Don't start panicking just yet. This is yet another one of those laws that has long been in place, but essentially ignored. I doubt they are going to try to apply it to farang living in Thailand under the retirement visa.
Even if they do, if you are from the USA or Australia, according to what I'm reading you are exempt because those countries have a double tax agreement with Thailand.
I do not see the UK on the list.
See also the September 19 "Headline News" : viewtopic.php?p=111454#p111454
Even if they do, if you are from the USA or Australia, according to what I'm reading you are exempt because those countries have a double tax agreement with Thailand.
I do not see the UK on the list.
See also the September 19 "Headline News" : viewtopic.php?p=111454#p111454
Re: Propsed changes to taxation
According to my understanding, under current rules it would be possible for a UK citizen living in Thailand to park a load of money in a jurisdiction with low taxes, such as Singapore and not have to pay taxes on that revenue in Thailand, or the UK.
If that understanding is correct, this is potentially a big change if taxes on income & capital gains etc all need to be considered. It may even encourage some high net worth people to consider living elsewhere.
If that understanding is correct, this is potentially a big change if taxes on income & capital gains etc all need to be considered. It may even encourage some high net worth people to consider living elsewhere.
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Gaybutton
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Re: Propsed changes to taxation
Will it or won't it affect expats on the retirement visa? That simply is not clear at this point - and not being clear seems always to be part of new announcements. We just don't know what is going on yet and if it indeed does affect expats, no clue at this point by how much.
The two big issues, neither of which are clear, are 1. Will immigration and retirement visa requirements be changed? and 2. Now will we be subject to taxes we've never been subject to before - and how much?
I think because nothing is clear yet, then it is too soon to start getting upset about either issue. Again, my favorite quote applies: "Don't worry until there is something to worry about".
We'll just have to wait and see and deal with whatever ends up thrown at us, if anything.
____________________________________________________________
Thai Government Alters Overseas Income Tax Rules to Close Loopholes
By Tanakorn Panyadee
19 September, 2023
In an effort to tackle loopholes in overseas income tax, the Thai government has pulled out new rules that it said would permanently close these gaps for good, while also addressing issues of income inequality within the country.
However, the new rules have caused concern amongst many foreign expats even though the intention of the rules seem mainly targeted at Thais and dual tax agreements could avert some of the impact for some foreigners. Regardless of the intention, however, the rules could still complicate things for some foreign nationals who stay in Thailand over 180 days a year.
The Thai Ministry of Finance last week implemented a tighter rule on overseas income, which will take effect on January 1st, 2024, onward.
The new rule, aimed to tackle income equality and tax loopholes as stated by PM Srettha Thavisin, will empower authorities to collect taxes from the foreign income of individuals who have resided in Thailand for a minimum of 180 days in the respective assessment year.
According to the new order, residents, who earn taxable income offshore, will be subject to personal income tax, regardless of the tax year they bring such funds into Thailand or the year in which the money is earned, the Revenue Department declared on September 15th.
Previously, residents with foreign income were exempt from personal income tax if they brought the funds into Thailand in a different year from the year the income was earned.
The new rule now essentially close this gap by taxing offshore income whenever it is remitted into the country.
PM Srettha on Monday, September 18th, emphasized the importance of this move, saying “Some people may not be happy that I am digging in to this area, but inequality is a big issue. The principle of tax is that you must pay tax on income you earn no matter how you earn it and not take advantage of various loopholes to try to avoid it.”
Nevertheless, it is important to highlight that if the income from offshore sources is not subject to taxation or falls under categories exempted from Thai personal income tax as per the Revenue Code, residents will not be required to pay personal income tax when they bring that income into Thailand.
As for exactly what this means for foreigners, the new rules have driven intense debate on social media and concern. Many netizens have pointed out that most expats have dual tax agreements with their own home countries so if the income was already taxed in say the UK, it would in theory not be able to be double taxed in Thailand.
There has also been debate on if the term “resident” in the new rules applies to just staying over 180 days or being a Thai national, which most seem to believe that based on current interpretation of the rules this would be the former and not the latter.
There is also no sign of if foreign nationals could be officially exempted or if this means regardless of a dual tax status if a foreign expat would now legally need to do a Thai tax return each year. Foreign expats in some visa statuses, notably work visas, already do this or have their company handle it for them.
The Ministry of Finance has stated that they understand a lot of the growing concern around the new rules and plan to provide further clarification on them in the near future before they take effect.
TPN media has already had many reader messages and e-mails full of concern over the pending rules but many of the questions quite simply cannot be answered with a concrete response until the Thai government provides further clarifications.
We will, however, continue to cover these new rules as they are clarified and expanded upon and urge those interested in the future rules to keep a close eye on TPN Media.
https://thepattayanews.com/2023/09/19/t ... loopholes/
The two big issues, neither of which are clear, are 1. Will immigration and retirement visa requirements be changed? and 2. Now will we be subject to taxes we've never been subject to before - and how much?
I think because nothing is clear yet, then it is too soon to start getting upset about either issue. Again, my favorite quote applies: "Don't worry until there is something to worry about".
We'll just have to wait and see and deal with whatever ends up thrown at us, if anything.
____________________________________________________________
Thai Government Alters Overseas Income Tax Rules to Close Loopholes
By Tanakorn Panyadee
19 September, 2023
In an effort to tackle loopholes in overseas income tax, the Thai government has pulled out new rules that it said would permanently close these gaps for good, while also addressing issues of income inequality within the country.
However, the new rules have caused concern amongst many foreign expats even though the intention of the rules seem mainly targeted at Thais and dual tax agreements could avert some of the impact for some foreigners. Regardless of the intention, however, the rules could still complicate things for some foreign nationals who stay in Thailand over 180 days a year.
The Thai Ministry of Finance last week implemented a tighter rule on overseas income, which will take effect on January 1st, 2024, onward.
The new rule, aimed to tackle income equality and tax loopholes as stated by PM Srettha Thavisin, will empower authorities to collect taxes from the foreign income of individuals who have resided in Thailand for a minimum of 180 days in the respective assessment year.
According to the new order, residents, who earn taxable income offshore, will be subject to personal income tax, regardless of the tax year they bring such funds into Thailand or the year in which the money is earned, the Revenue Department declared on September 15th.
Previously, residents with foreign income were exempt from personal income tax if they brought the funds into Thailand in a different year from the year the income was earned.
The new rule now essentially close this gap by taxing offshore income whenever it is remitted into the country.
PM Srettha on Monday, September 18th, emphasized the importance of this move, saying “Some people may not be happy that I am digging in to this area, but inequality is a big issue. The principle of tax is that you must pay tax on income you earn no matter how you earn it and not take advantage of various loopholes to try to avoid it.”
Nevertheless, it is important to highlight that if the income from offshore sources is not subject to taxation or falls under categories exempted from Thai personal income tax as per the Revenue Code, residents will not be required to pay personal income tax when they bring that income into Thailand.
As for exactly what this means for foreigners, the new rules have driven intense debate on social media and concern. Many netizens have pointed out that most expats have dual tax agreements with their own home countries so if the income was already taxed in say the UK, it would in theory not be able to be double taxed in Thailand.
There has also been debate on if the term “resident” in the new rules applies to just staying over 180 days or being a Thai national, which most seem to believe that based on current interpretation of the rules this would be the former and not the latter.
There is also no sign of if foreign nationals could be officially exempted or if this means regardless of a dual tax status if a foreign expat would now legally need to do a Thai tax return each year. Foreign expats in some visa statuses, notably work visas, already do this or have their company handle it for them.
The Ministry of Finance has stated that they understand a lot of the growing concern around the new rules and plan to provide further clarification on them in the near future before they take effect.
TPN media has already had many reader messages and e-mails full of concern over the pending rules but many of the questions quite simply cannot be answered with a concrete response until the Thai government provides further clarifications.
We will, however, continue to cover these new rules as they are clarified and expanded upon and urge those interested in the future rules to keep a close eye on TPN Media.
https://thepattayanews.com/2023/09/19/t ... loopholes/
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Gaybutton
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Gaybutton
- Posts: 21589
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Re: Propsed changes to taxation
One aspect of this I have not yet seen addressed is that for years foreigners were getting around the Thai law forbidding foreigners to own property and houses, with the exception being condos. Foreigners were getting around that by setting up a Thai corporation and buying under the corporate name. Thailand put a stop to that years ago, but those who did buy property, homes, or whatever else under a corporate name still own under a corporate name.
I wonder how that is going to factor in to the tax scenario.
I wonder how that is going to factor in to the tax scenario.
Re: Propsed changes to taxation
Regarding retired expats:
From what I'm reading only income earned inside Thailand shall be subjected to tax during retirement. Therefore, you will not be obliged to pay any taxes for any income you have earned from overseas. Also, personal income taxes are not required for retirees in Thailand.
The Double Taxation Agreement between Thailand and other countries also includes Great Britain according to the site link below:
https://thailand.acclime.com/guides/double-taxation/
From what I'm reading only income earned inside Thailand shall be subjected to tax during retirement. Therefore, you will not be obliged to pay any taxes for any income you have earned from overseas. Also, personal income taxes are not required for retirees in Thailand.
The Double Taxation Agreement between Thailand and other countries also includes Great Britain according to the site link below:
https://thailand.acclime.com/guides/double-taxation/
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Gaybutton
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Re: Propsed changes to taxation
I can't find anything to support that. Where did you see this?
There is nothing clear yet. For example, expats receiving pension benefits obviously receive them from overseas. Will that be regarded as taxable income? So far, the answer to that is "I don't know."
And if we do end up being taxed, then at what rate? The answer to that too is "I don't know."
As a matter of fact, as of September 20, no matter what questions there may be about this, the answers are all "I don't know."
Re: Propsed changes to taxation
I think that's the CURRENT situation.
Is there any evidence that what you're reading has been updated to reflect 2024 requirements in view of the recent announcement ?
Re: Propsed changes to taxation
I haven't seen any updates to any requirements regarding taxation that would impact retirees, and even the articles that we're reading now fall short of implicating retirees (IMO).
These recent news articles" seem to have hit the press while their editors were asleep - and as always are more focused on "Sensationalism" than they are actual factual content. How often have we seen this?
What we do know:
61 countries, including the U.S. and Great Britain, signed agreements with Thailand in 1996 to avoid Double Taxation.
The vast majority of retired expats are here on "temporary stay extensions" and are not "Residents".
The tax laws that the new PM is grappling with have been lax (uncontrolled) for years and involve mostly Thai nationals - not expat retirees.
They should come out with a new newspaper directed solely at the expat community called "SHOCKWAVE". They certainly have enough qualified reporters...
