Jun wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:31 am
If they increased both by the same percentage, within our first 12 months, a hypothetical farang needs to find the same amount of "extra" money.
I have a feeling if they really do substantially raise the requirements, surrounding countries such as Laos, Cambodia, and even Myanmar, evil military junta and all, will see an influx of expats who were living in Thailand, can no longer afford it, but still wish to remain in Asia.
In my case I couldn't return to the USA to live even if I wanted to. Why? Because my medical insurance is expat insurance, meaning I am covered anywhere in the world except my home country. If I return to the USA to live, that's the end of my insurance and at my age I have no idea where I could get new medical insurance at all, let alone at an affordable price. Oh well, I suppose there's always Paraguay . . .
gerefan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:06 pm
If these criminals are entering Thailand on a retirement visa that means they are either over 55 or over 60.
I thought generally criminals were younger than that?
Or are they lying about their age and getting the visas that way?
If the latter the answer is simple unless somehow they are covering up their age.
The age for getting a retirement extension in Thailand is 50 in addition to the financial requirements being discussed in this thread.
Gaybutton wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:58 am
In any case, I, for one, am not going to worry about it. Just because "Big Joke" brought it up doesn't mean it's going to happen. A good friend long ago gave me a piece of advice: "Don't worry until you have something to worry about." There is nothing to worry about just yet.
Correct!
First, there needs to be a new Cabinet installed. Then the proposal will need to be made and with typical Thai bureaucracy, it no doubt will be sent to appropriate committees with their recommendations on what, if any change in the thresholds need to be made. They will report back to the Cabinet for more discussion.
Then, to change a law, the Cabinet will need to send it to the Thai Parliament for more discussion and eventual voting - then whatever is passed, will not be implemented until the relevant agencies (Immigration, Foreign Ministry, etc.) can draft and publish regulations.
2lz2p wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:15 am
Then, to change a law, the Cabinet will need to send it to the Thai Parliament for more discussion and eventual voting - then whatever is passed, will not be implemented until the relevant agencies (Immigration, Foreign Ministry, etc.) can draft and publish regulations.
"Trouble is - we'll all be dead."
- Ronald Fraser (Sgt. Watson), 'The Flight of the Phoenix' - 1965
I remember making the statement below on this forum several years ago when discussing the same topic:
"When I retire in Thailand I intend to follow the Immigration Laws without question....BUT if the day ever comes where they change the laws to where I can't easily comply with the laws anymore - I'll simply move". And that's exactly how I feel today.
Example: Cambodian and Vietnam both have similar climates, gay-friendly environments, low costs-of-living, and other fringe benefits that Thailand offers, so it's not like I don't have any options.
Immigration (and every Government Ministry it's attached to) knows full-well that the majority of expats have the very same options, thus the reason they'll be content (as they always have been) "grandfathering" any new financial requirements so we stay put on Thai spoil and continue contributing to their economy. What the newcomers have in store is anyone's guess, but we'll probably all be dead before the newcomers get here anyway - so who gives a fuck?...
Dodger wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:17 pm
so who gives a fuck?...
Have you forgotten where you are? In Thailand nobody gives a fuck. You have to pay for it . . .
Another unpleasant little thought. If the only farang who will get to live in Thailand have to be relatively wealthy, then as soon as the bars and boys hear about it, up go the prices.
Dodger wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:17 pmExample: Cambodian and Vietnam both have similar climates, gay-friendly environments, low costs-of-living, and other fringe benefits that Thailand offers, so it's not like I don't have any options.
I believe the quality of healthcare is lower in those countries & for many people, that eventually becomes important, whether they like it or not.
Last time I looked, Vietnam also didn't have any retirement visa.
However, out of those two, I would choose Cambodia, due to better availability of boys and a more laid back attitude.
Gaybutton wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:19 pmAnother unpleasant little thought. If the only farang who will get to live in Thailand have to be relatively wealthy, then as soon as the bars and boys hear about it, up go the prices.
I suspect such an effect would be minimal.
If Thailand makes retirement visas less affordable, all it does is remove some of the farang with less spending power.
The number of wealthy retirees doesn't go up, so there's no increase in demand for premium priced trade.
However, the lads renting themselves out at reasonable prices find fewer customers. Only if large numbers of the boys quit do prices go up.
Opinion Editorial: No, It Isn’t Time to Worry About Thai Retirement Visa Changes….Yet
By Adam Judd
August 5, 2023
Of all our stories in the past week, one particular story, indeed basically just a small portion of the overall story, sent shockwaves through the retired ex-pat community and the rumour mill was set on fire.
We are referring to this article about Thai police cracking down on foreign criminal motorbike clubs following it being discovered that the prime suspect in the brutal murder and dismemberment of a German businessman in Pattaya was allegedly a prominent member of one of these clubs.
It isn’t the crackdown on motorbike clubs that upset and disturbed many of our readers, leading to various E-mails and messages, but a statement in the article attributed to deputy national police chief General Surachate Hakparn, arguably the most well-known police officer in Thailand and former Chief of Thai Immigration.
The statement and excerpt that shook up many readers is below:
Deputy National Police Chief Pol Gen Surachate Hakparn stated that the gang members tend to favor Thailand due to the lack of strict law enforcement and corrupt officials.
He cited the outdated 1979 Immigration Act, which allows foreigners aged above 50 to easily live in Thailand only if they have 800,000 baht in their bank account or an income certificate with a monthly salary not less than 65,000 baht.
This also tended to be the case of the suspects in Mack’s murder.
Due to the existence of these dangerous gangs, aware foreign tourists feel discouraged to visit Pattaya or invest in the Eastern Seaboard, causing huge damage to the country, Pol Gen Surachate said.
Thus, the RTP needs to regain trust from tourists by not only eradicating these gangs but also some Thai officials who clandestinely aid them.
As part of the efforts, Pol Gen Surachate promised that he would propose an amendment to the immigration law, especially concerning retirement visa extensions, through the police chief once a new government takes office. This aims to filter out bad people and make the law truly helpful for investors or someone who innocently wants to live in Thailand.
We here at TPN media wanted to take a closer look at these statements after trying to answer many individual comments and messages over the past week or so.
First, as an individual of great influence with both the Royal Thai Immigration and Royal Thai Police, when Mr. Hakparn speaks it is best to listen. He is well known for many reforms and changes, many admittedly unpopular to foreigners, when in charge of Thai Immigration.
Secondly, nothing is set in stone currently. This isn’t a case of Mr. Hakparn simply saying we are upping the requirements and making the decision on his own. It will need significant discussion from Parliament and relevant agencies. Yes, some programs like Thailand Elite are changing their requirements individually, but they are essentially completely run by the Thailand Tourism Authority and run as a company with a single shareholder, not a government plan. We aren’t going to be touching much on the Elite changes which also seem to be raising costs involved significantly, as these changes affect a much smaller group of people than blanket retirement visa changes.
Third, Thailand currently has only a caretaker government. Since the election in May there has been continued drama and problems over forming a new government and it seems nearly every single day is another legal challenge or delay, like this one we recently covered here. The bottom line is there is currently no Thai Prime Minister and even once this is chosen it will take some time to get the new government formed, ministers in place, and priorities aligned.
Is this going to be something to keep an eye on down the road? Yes, certainly. But worrying and focusing on baseless speculation and proposals that are currently just talk with no concrete changes proposed to the government will only cause you more stress.
TPN media will certainly stay on top of this subject and continue to communicate any concrete proposals and statements from relevant officials in regard to visas and retirement visas. We will also make sure, as a fairly well-read publication in both Thai and English, that the viewpoints of our readers are made clear to decision makers.
For now, however, breathe a bit…any changes are at least six months off and more likely a year, in my opinion. (Not counting elite, again, which is essentially a private company owned by the tourism authority and can make their own independent decisions.)
According to the Nation article (linked below) which was released on August 6th; - the new requirements are reportedly aimed at ending the practice of visa agents falsifying bank statements for foreigners who do not have enough money to meet the financial demands for a retirement visa extension.
If this does in fact get enforced I imagine many expats aern't going to be very happy, and that's putting it mildly.
The majority of expat friends and aquantaines I have over here use the services of an agent versus dealing directly with Immigration. Some of them do this simply as a convenience, where others do this because of difficulties (or entanglements) they have meeting (or proving) minimum financial requirements for retirement visa extensions. Whatever the case, none will be happy with these rumored changes.
Dodger wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:06 am
According to the Nation article (linked below) which was released on August 6th; - the new requirements are reportedly aimed at ending the practice of visa agents falsifying bank statements for foreigners who do not have enough money to meet the financial demands for a retirement visa extension.
The linked article was published on February 01, 2019. Also, the release date couldn't be August 6 (tomorrow) if the post was intended to infer it was done recently in 2023.
It has no relationship to the current pronouncement regarding bike gangs and the need to change the financial thresholds. Also, it is interesting to note that the article indicates a crack down on visa agents, but they are still going strong more than 5 years after that article was published.
As I mentioned in my previous posting, which is pretty much what Adam Judd is saying in his article, any changes are not imminent and what they will be is unknown.
