By Barry Kenyon

[Gaybutton]

And then remind you that immigration might prefer you to use an agency that pays tea money, hence the obstacles.

That is where you and I differ the most. We've already posted our opinions about bribes ad nauseam, so I see no reason to continue posting essentially the same.

Obviously I disagree with you about the 800,000 baht requirement and I've also already stated my reasons many times in previous posts.

[Jun]

The 800,000 baht can be regarded regarded as optional.
Pay a slightly increased fee to the agencies and they circumvent it.

[Gaybutton]

Pay a slightly increased fee to the agencies and they circumvent it.

I would be afraid to do that. If you turn out to be right about bribes, then that is illegal. I would not want to risk doing my retirement visa extensions that way in case sooner or later there is a crackdown and it was discovered that I obtained my extensions by some sort of illegal means even if it is not my fault. The Thai government might not care if it was my fault or not. I've seen that happen to farang even when an immigration officer told them what to do, but the officer was wrong.

I don't like it, but I'm going to continue doing everything above board. The only exception I'm anticipating is using Mots when it's time to renew my driving license. That's not an immigration issue, so I'm not worried about it.

[Jun]

I would be afraid to do that. If you turn out to be right about bribes, then that is illegal. I would not want to risk doing my retirement visa extensions that way in case sooner or later there is a crackdown and it was discovered that I obtained my extensions by some sort of illegal means even if it is not my fault.

Ideally, a crackdown would result in the ones receiving the bribes in jail or executed. However I doubt that would happen in Thailand, particularly if other people in senior positions were also on the take.

So your low risk solution of doing the visa extensions properly makes sense.

[Gaybutton]

So your low risk solution of doing the visa extensions properly makes sense.

In my opinion, anyone who qualifies for the retirement visa or any other long-term visa, should do it properly despite the inconvenience and hassle of personally going to immigration to do it. I think it is a mistake to even try to find a way around it. Not a good idea to play games with immigration.

For me, a couple hours once a year of enduring a trip to immigration and possibly having to wait in long lines is worth doing. If you take care of it the proper way, now you have nothing to worry about if something ever goes wrong using an agent. When it comes to extending the visa, I'm not going to take any chances.

I agree that there really is no reason why they can't come up with a method of doing it online. Maybe some day they will, but until that day comes, for me it's off to immigration. And it is always a great feeling when you return to immigration the next day to pick up your passport and there is the new extension stamped in and you're good for another year.

If they do that, then the only reason to physically go to immigration would be if for some reason your application was not approved.

[bkkguy]

What wealthy farang are going to retire in Thailand if they know their income is going to be taxed?

for just a 50,000 Baht application fee wealthy retirees can get an LTR visa and stay for ten years with foreign income tax-exempt status and as a bonus, making the 50,000 Baht basically meaningless, no annual extension, unlimited re-entries, only "90 day" report to Immigration once a year and Immigration fast-track each entry - there is no shortage of people lining up for this, the grumbling is from the "non-wealthy" retirees that the government is still to declare its hand on

[Gaybutton]

making the 50,000 Baht basically meaningless, no annual extension, unlimited re-entries, only "90 day" report to Immigration once a year and Immigration fast-track each entry

I'm sure some think that's great. I am not among them. I see no advantage to it. 50,000 baht for a 10 year visa. Meanwhile those of us who do the annual extension pay 1900 baht for it. That's 19,000 baht in 10 years. It's not worth 31,000 baht to me to avoid having to do the annual extension. Also, what is the 800,000 baht or 65,000 baht per month rule with that visa? Are those visa holders exempt?

The only advantage I see is not having to do the annual extension. Considering it takes all of 2 minutes to do the 90-day report online, that's not a major advantage. You would have to make a lot of trips in and out of Thailand for the reentry cost to add up to 31,000 baht. Regarding taxes, I believe most farang on the retirement visa will not have to pay Thai income tax.

And probably most of us on the retirement visa also have to weigh the odds, at our age, of even still being alive 10 years later.

[2lz2p]

What wealthy farang are going to retire in Thailand if they know their income is going to be taxed?

for just a 50,000 Baht application fee wealthy retirees can get an LTR visa and stay for ten years with foreign income tax-exempt status and as a bonus, making the 50,000 Baht basically meaningless, no annual extension, unlimited re-entries, only "90 day" report to Immigration once a year and Immigration fast-track each entry - there is no shortage of people lining up for this, the grumbling is from the "non-wealthy" retirees that the government is still to declare its hand on

To qualify for the LTR visa based on being a retiree, the requirement is an income of at least US$80,000 per year or personal income of at least US$40,000 and investment of at least US$250,000 in Thai Government bonds, foreign direct investment, or Thai property.

In addition, health insurance of at least US$50,000 covering the period of stay or US$100,000 in a bank account for no less than 12 months or social security benefits which insures hospitalization & treatment in Thailand.

The LTR is issued by the Bureau of Investment rather than the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Embassies/Consulates) or the Immigration Bureau. The Pattaya City Expats Club has some information about it on their website at: https://pcec.club/Long-Term-Resident-Visa

[Gaybutton]

To qualify for the LTR visa based on being a retiree, the requirement is an income of at least US$80,000 per year or personal income of at least US$40,000 and investment of at least US$250,000 in Thai Government bonds, foreign direct investment, or Thai property.

In addition, health insurance of at least US$50,000 covering the period of stay or US$100,000 in a bank account for no less than 12 months or social security benefits which insures hospitalization & treatment in Thailand.

Apparently bkkguy is mistaken.

[Dodger]

The best investment I ever made was when I purchased a copy machine.

I keep a list of every document Immigration needs to process my annual extension - modify the list as needed whenever they change the requirements - and stuff copies of every document they want in my backpack for the trip to Immigration every year. I refer to this stack of documents as "Their Papers".

I walk into Immigration - smile - hand them Their Papers...pay the 1,900 THB fee...get my que to pick up my passport and new visa extension the next day. Couldn't be simpler. For me that is. I'm saying this because the more Papers they request, the more difficult and time-consuming their jobs get which creates a strain on their internal resources.

I imagine a day may come when they start requesting tax reports validating the fact that our (expat) income is not taxable in Thailand and/or a copy of our actual tax reports from our home countries. In either case I'm prepared to turn on my Paper Machine and start cranking our more paper to add to Their Papers.

The way I look at it (and always have) is that they create more problems for themselves with these "ready - fire - aim" solutions then they do for the expats. The last thing I would do is run to an agent. All that does is ease the burden they created for themselves, and quadruple the $$money$$ flowing into Immigration in the mean time. What's wrong with this picture?

I agree with GB. I don't believe the vast majority of expats will ever have to pay taxes on their retirement income. Period.

By-the-way: The difference between the 1.900 baht I pay Immigration for my annual extension and the 14,000 THB some people are paying the agents is enough to cover my annual electric charges.