Here we go again. Won't they EVER learn?

[fountainhall]

That label is used by media and forum members. I think often wrongly used. The law doesn't brand someone a pedophile who has sex with a 17 year old, the media and the public does.

You really have an incredibly simplistic view of the world. If you are convicted of having sex with a boy or girl who according to the law of the land is "underage", whether you like it or not you will be labelled a pedophile. And nothing you can do in the future will wipe your slate clean. You will be branded as a pedophile - no matter if you spend the rest of your life trying to claim that you are not. Period!

[Gaybutton]

nothing you can do in the future will wipe your slate clean. You will be branded as a pedophile - no matter if you spend the rest of your life trying to claim that you are not. Period!

In the USA it goes beyond that. If a person is a convicted sex offender - and I don't know if that applies to Americans convicted in foreign courts - he goes on a sex offender registry. That registry is open to the public. In many areas the locals are informed by the authorities that a convicted sex offender is moving into their vicinity. The neighbors usually don't exactly roll out the "Welcome Wagon" for sex offenders.

So, you're right. In the USA sex offenders might as well be branded with the Scarlet Letter.

Farang convicted as sex offenders in Thailand, whether labeled pedophile or not, are usually deported after serving prison time, which could be years. When a farang is deported, they don't just put him on a plane and wave bye-bye. He is likely to make the trip in handcuffs, accompanied by a police officer from his home country. And the farang has to pay his own expenses, including the airfare. If he doesn't have the money, he remains in prison until he can come up with it.

A Thai prison is not a place where I would want to be.



Whether it's right or wrong to label someone a pedophile, that's hardly the issue. See the photo? That's the kind of place someone convicted of sex with an under-age boy is going to be. See the food being served? It's gourmet night at Klong Prem.

Is that worth the risk?

[thaifarang]

Absolutely not worth the risk and I only feel joy when I see a Farang in their prison (assuming he is not innocent). Because it would be grossly unfair to all these gay men who say 'No' to a boy who can not produce an id card - but who looks so very beautiful, around age 18-20, yet you can not be sure if it is not below 18, 17 is also possible, so they have the wisdom to say 'No' . Yes, how grossly unfair it is to these men if another Farang does take the risk and then gets away with it. Wouldn't that be an unfair world? And if I hate one thing it is unfairness.

The same reason why I hope with all my heart, that all these men who took underage boys in the time when Sunee was known for it, are now rotting in jail. If they however live now a life of freedom, then how unfair a world it is.

All this does however does not mean that for me most of these men are pedophiles. Yes, if you feel attracted to say a 10 or 14 year old. No, if it is for 16 and up. That is ephebophilia.

[thaiworthy]

. . . I hope with all my heart, that all these men who took underage boys in the time when Sunee was known for it, are now rotting in jail. If they however live now a life of freedom, then how unfair a world it is.

Yes, how grossly unfair it is to these men if another Farang does take the risk and then gets away with it. Wouldn't that be an unfair world? And if I hate one thing it is unfairness.

I can't speak for another's risk, regardless of the "unfairness" in it. I wouldn't call it unfair anyway, I would call it injustice. However, as you quite subtly suggest with the numerous references to "unfairness," some people may indeed be thinking to themselves "he got away with it, why shouldn't I?" Fairness is hardly a basis for an error in judgement, no matter how barely legal and beautiful someone is perceived to be.

Not sure what Pedohebephilia classifications have to do with anything, really. But pedo has become slang in our language. The Urban dictionary describes it as a "sick fuck." But it doesn't matter what you call it. Law is the law and punishment is punishment. Child sexual abuse is not committed by all age fetishists, and not all child molesters are pedohebephiles.

There is also an altogether dark and sinister albeit dramatic side related to more horrific crimes in cinema. The term used here is "to covet," which I think is exploited by (some) members of authority, such as priests and teachers. Child sexual abuse is not limited to bars and hook-up sites, but is found where children are usually present and are seen every day.

"For any particular thing, ask What is it in itself? What is its nature?" -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations (c. 175)

[fountainhall]

Yes, how grossly unfair it is to these men if another Farang does take the risk and then gets away with it. Wouldn't that be an unfair world? And if I hate one thing it is unfairness..

Get over it! Life is unfair! My savings took a nosedive in 2008 thanks to greedy international bankers. They should have gone to jail. Less than a handful have. Now they continue to enjoy their fat salaries and bonuses and I am still worse off. It's unfair! The lady who jumped the queue at the supermarket yesterday in front of half a dozen other shoppers. She got an advantage. It was unfair! I get stopped for speeding. Thousands don't. It's unfair! If you want a utopia where everything is fair and everyone is fair to everyone else, you will spend the rest of your life in a state of total misery.

All this does however does not mean that for me most of these men are pedophiles. Yes, if you feel attracked to say a 10 or 14 year old. No, if it is for 16 and up. That is ephebophilia.

Whatever the dictionary says it is and whatever the nomenclature you think it should be, apart from perhaps a few thousand the rest of the world hasn't the faintest clue what that means. And frankly it doesn't care. What it does know is that under age sex is pedophilia. Have sex with anyone under the legal age in any country and you are branded a pedophile. End of argument!

[Gaybutton]

All this does however does not mean that for me most of these men are pedophiles. Yes, if you feel attracted to say a 10 or 14 year old. No, if it is for 16 and up.

Why is 16 the "magic number" ?

[thaifarang]

What it does know is that under age sex is pedophilia. Have sex with anyone under the legal age in any country and you are branded a pedophile. End of argument!

Ok, so feeling sexually attracked to a 17 year old body is not pedophilia, only when you actually have sex with that person, only then you are a pedophile in the 'eyes of the world'? That is how I read you.

Ok, so feeling sexually aroused when you see a hot female body doesn't make you a hetero, only when you fuck that adult woman you have become a hetero?

Seems to me the 'rest of the world' is not very consistent. Many call themselves 'heterosexual' before their first time sex, but many adults - who know they can get sexually aroused by a 17 year old body - do not call themselves pedophiles (and rightly so), but they do call a person a pedo who actually has sex with a 17 year old! But then, according to this logic, any male now who wanks in front of hetero porn is not heterosexual UNTIL the first time he has sex?

[thaifarang]

All this does however does not mean that for me most of these men are pedophiles. Yes, if you feel attracted to say a 10 or 14 year old. No, if it is for 16 and up.

Why is 16 the "magic number" ?

You have to draw the line somewhere, but 16 is the age most humans are sexually mature, so ended more or less puberty and have no child like bodies anymore, but young female and young male bodies.

That explains also why virtually all hetero men can get sexually aroused by 16+ bodies, but not by the body of a 10 year old. It is not pedophilia to like 16+. It would make almost all of the world a pedophile. Unless you have that defintion of yours which only makes someone a pedo when he has sex with a 17 year old, like you are only hetero when you have sex with a woman, etc. We disagree then in this definition. I think my definition is the old fashioned one.

[Dodger]

This is an interesting topic, especially when considering the fact that the vast majority of single farang who either visit Thailand regularly or reside in Thailand as expats are there for one compelling reason - and that's to have sex with Thai girls or boys who are significantly younger then they are...and that includes those of you who are reading my words now.

From what I've observed the age gap between a str8 farang man and his Thai girl friend (or bride) is somewhere around 35 years. The farang in this scenario being an average of 60 years old and his Thai counterpart being in her mid-twenties. The average age gap between the gay farang punter and his Thai boyfriend is ironically the same. Fortunately, for most of us here, there are no laws prohibiting sex between people when there is a 3-1/2 decade age gap.

Most of the gay punters I know enjoy having sex with boys who are young enough to be your grandsons, but when the subject of a 17 year old boy comes up they (meaning you) stand in a line ready to toss grenades at a guy who got caught as if you are somehow of a much higher moral standard. I have to ask myself: Is this reaction because of a deep-seeded feeling of guilt that you carry for harboring your own desires, or, simply an expression of personal jealousy because someone else experienced what you yourself desired?

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that breaking the law has its potential consequences - and that the minimum age for sex in Thailand is set at 18. But what does require a brain surgeon is understanding why you, of all people, would want to chastise a guy who got caught doing something that you yourself have either done or wanted to do at some point during your horny escapades in Thailand. Most of the people in the West would chastise you (me included) just for the mere fact that we are having sex with boys who are old enough to be our sons or grandsons. Legal, absolutely. But we would be burned at the stake nonetheless, similar how you think the guy who was caught with the 17 year old boy should be burned at the stake, which is thought provoking to say the very least.

[thaifarang]

I want him in jail because of jealousy yes. Because for me sex with a 17 year old should be legal. It is not morally wrong (and most nations don't see it as wrong also, considering age of consent is 16 in many countries). But when I am in Thailand I take good care to ask for an ID card. Because I not want to break the law. Not because I think it is morally wrong to have sex with a 17 year old - I think it is morally wrong to have sex with a 10 year old - but because it is not worth jail time for me to have sex with a 16 or 17 year old. It is just not worth it.

So it is then unfair to law abiding people (like me and others on this forum) when a Farang who takes that risk gets away with it. That is an injustice towards all law abiding people who want the same thing, but have the decency to respect the law. And also because in a fair world people should feel the consequences of their actions.

I know life is unfair, but some unfairness we humans can correct. Like locking him up.