Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

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Gaybutton
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

Post by Gaybutton »

Jun wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:05 pm they're not currently collecting the taxes? If I understand correctly.
To the best of my knowledge that is correct. However they have been doing it before, that is how they are still doing it.

My understanding is if tax was going to be assessed, it would be due in March. At the time of this post March is less than 2 days away and still nothing from the Thai government. If that tells you the same as it tells me, then I doubt anyone has anything to worry about.

Some of the "experts" have been recommending getting a Thai tax ID number. Unless the Thai government announces that expats are now required to have a tax ID number, I, for one, have no intention of bothering with it. My interest is what the Thai government tells us to do and as far as I'm concerned there is no reason to go by what anyone else says.

I've had too many know-it-alls who try to pass themselves off as "being in the know" giving unsolicited advice about everything from exchange rate predictions to medical insurance becoming required by all - none of which has happened. When it comes to those kinds of things, I'll pay attention to announcements from the Thai government and nothing else. I deal with problems if and when they actually happen.

I repeat what I've posted before - something a close prosecuting attorney friend told me long before I moved to Thailand, and it stuck with me ever since: "Don't worry until there's something to worry about". Unfounded rumors are my idea of something not to worry about.
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

Post by Gaybutton »

Once again, not a single word from the Thai government. Until and unless some word comes from the Thai government, I intend to do absolutely nothing regarding Thai income tax. That includes not bothering to get a Thai Tax ID number. The columnists, lawyers, and other "experts" can spout all they want, but nothing at all has been said by the government.

The Thai government must be well aware of how upset this whole episode has made many farang. I would like, but don't expect, the government to announce they are not going to tax foreign pensions, or anything else. If they do, I'll be pleasantly shocked.
_____________________________________________________________

No sign of a common Thai policy to tax expats on overseas remittances

By Barry Kenyon

March 16, 2025

With a couple of weeks left to sign up with the Thai Revenue Department (TRD) for cash transmitted from abroad in the calendar year 2024, questions still abound. It all depends whom you ask. Some Thai tax lawyers, for instance, say the tax net includes use of overseas credit cards and transfers via Wise, others argue it’s more complicated than that. Some claim that everyone who was present in Thailand for 180 days plus last year needs to file, an observation hotly disputed by others who stress no need if you didn’t transfer “assessable” income.

Benjamin Hart, a naturalized Thai citizen and managing director of Integrity Legal, in his videos has argued forcefully that typical pensioners living here on pre-taxed income in their home country should not be fooled by foreign “tax-pimps” who have no authority anyway under Thai law. He does caution that those in doubt should consult a native Thai tax consultant, emphasizing that there has been no change in Thai law, merely a revised interpretation by TRD. Other commentators last year went further and predicted that the matter might well be contested in the Thai courts with a likely win for the tax residents under financial threat. However, no such legal challenges have apparently been initiated.

Pinsai Suraswadi, newly appointed director general of TRD, has stated that expats, Thai or foreign, who are tax residents should file paperwork by March 31 with a further week’s leeway for online submissions. He was very candid that the specific amount payable would depend on the nature of such income and the tax treaty with their country of origin. He also conceded that the entire move to involve foreigners and their transmitted income was due to rising public debt, slow economic growth and an ageing population.

Data collected by the Pattaya Mail and feedback provided to Facebook groups strongly suggest that each TRD office is interpreting the rules in its own way. In Bangkok, several expats showed detailed financial paperwork and were told nothing (or just 3,000-4,000 baht) to pay. In Chonburi, some assessments have been made without any paperwork required beyond passport and address confirmation. In Surat Thani, one expat said the officer was interested in double taxation, another being sharply advised to the contrary. Rather like the Destination Thailand Visa in a very different context, officer discretion in embassies, rather than agreed rules, is the order of the day.

One or two TRD offices have suggested to those expats on one-year retirement extensions of stay that 800,000 baht is the sum they should declare on their tax form. The reasoning is that the sum has to be transferred every year to qualify for the annual extension. One expat said that he was informed that half that amount was tax free, because of the built-in allowances in Thai tax codes, and that 5% would be levied on the remaining half: thus a tax bill of 20,000 baht for the year. A growing number of expats are paying authorized companies to negotiate on their behalf with TRD, so avoiding any personal visit to the tax office. Obviously these services are not free.

An earlier report in a Thai Examiner survey suggested that 58% of expats would neither seek a tax identification number nor submit a tax form this time around. Almost all of them were from countries with double taxation treaties which they felt, perhaps over-optimistically, covered them come what may. The current situation is obviously in need of a serious re-look by the Thai government itself. A great deal is at stake.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ces-494166
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

Post by ceejay »

The RD have published guidance. The link is to the pdf of this on their website:
https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upl ... AX2024.pdf

Things that I know to be true:
Thai law requires you to register for a Tax ID number within 60 days of receiving declarable income, even if the tax return is not due for several months after that.

Thai law requires a tax return to be made for income of 120,000 baht or over, even if no tax is due

In practice, a person over 65 will not pay any tax at all on a taxable income of around 500,000 baht (190,000 special age exemption,50% allowance up to a maximum 100,000 for expenses, 60,000 tax allowance, first 150,000 taxed at 0%)

The dual taxation treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover any pensions - not state pensions and not private pensions.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... l_2018.pdf
(see page 34)
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

Post by Gaybutton »

Ok, I'd like to look a it this way:

Is there anyone reading this who has ever had to pay so much as 1 baht for Thai income tax? If yes, you don't have to, but if you are willing to tell us why and how much you had to pay, I'm curious.
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

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Apparently this applies to Thais, not foreigners. Nothing in the article suggests any changes in the current tax rules for foreigners.
________________________________________________

Department to amend tax on foreign income remittance

by Wichit Chantanusornsiri

May 19, 2025

The Revenue Department is preparing to draft legislation to amend the collection of tax on foreign income remitted to Thailand.

According to Panuwat Luengwilai, deputy director-general of the department, Thais with income earned abroad who remit it to Thailand regardless of the tax year must include that income in their personal income tax filing in Thailand.

The tax rate is progressive, with rates ranging from 5% to 35%.

These regulations regarding the taxation of foreign income remitted to Thailand were amended during the previous government and have been in effect since Jan 1, 2024.

For foreign income earned before Jan 1, 2024 and remitted to Thailand after that period, the previous rules still apply. That means if a Thai earned foreign income before 2024 and remitted it after the year the income was earned, the remittance is not subject to the tax.

Mr Panuwat said the department is drafting a royal decree to amend the current criteria, in line with the policy of Finance Minister Pichai Chunhavajira, who is encouraging Thai nationals with foreign income to repatriate funds for domestic investment.

Under the new guidelines, Thais with foreign income will not be taxed if they remit that income in the year it was earned or the following year. For example, if income is earned in 2025 and brought into Thailand in 2025 or 2026, it is not subject to tax.

However, if the income is remitted after that period, normal tax obligations apply.

This condition is intended to expedite the repatriation of foreign income, potentially supporting domestic investment, in line with government policy.

Mr Panuwat said the current rules on taxing foreign income have discouraged Thais investing abroad from bringing their money back into the country.

A source from the Finance Ministry who requested anonymity said the taxation of foreign income follows the residency-based principle, whereby Thailand taxes the income of individuals who reside in the country.

This rule applies to persons who stay in Thailand for 180 days or more and have foreign income.

The department has consistently applied this residency-based taxation principle, which aligns with OECD guidelines.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... remittance
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

Post by Dodger »

Looks like they found their off-ramp by only mentioning "Thais" this time around.

March has come and gone and I still don't know a single expat who's applied for a Thai Tax I.D. or filed anything with anyone.

I wonder if the Thai money boys who receive regular financial contributions from their foreign sponsors overseas have to file? Don't laugh. I knew a superstar once who was receiving regular monthly payments from 4 different farang sponsors. He was making more money than the Mayor of Pattaya... :lol:
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

Post by Harald »

Gaybutton wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 5:58 am A source from the Finance Ministry who requested anonymity said the taxation of foreign income follows the residency-based principle, whereby Thailand taxes the income of individuals who reside in the country.

This rule applies to persons who stay in Thailand for 180 days or more and have foreign income.

The department has consistently applied this residency-based taxation principle, which aligns with OECD guidelines.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... remittance
In the end of the article it is mentioned the residential principle of taxation. In other words, new rules will be applied to all tax residents. Tax scare is over.
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Re: Taxes … more fuel to the fire!!

Post by Gaybutton »

Harald wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 9:45 am In the end of the article it is mentioned the residential principle of taxation. In other words, new rules will be applied to all tax residents. Tax scare is over.
There was never a reason, including now, for most of us living on pensions and Social Security to have any concerns whatever about Thai income tax. We are protected by the double taxation treaties.

If anyone wants to be worried about it, be my guest . . .
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