Tsarnaev

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Rogie
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Re: Tsarnaev

Post by Rogie »

Gaybutton wrote:If terrible places like super max prisons did not exist,
Thinking again about the good burghers of Boston, who 'favoured sentencing Tsarnaev to life in prison rather than executing him', is it common knowledge amongst American middle classes what life is like for a super-max inmate? If so, then in that case their reasoning would be similar to GB's - fair enough. Or is it possible some, or even the majority, just want to stick their head in the sand and not think about it too much. All they are concerned about is the convicted murderer is spared the death penalty, so that makes them feel good as that kind of person loves to let everyone know how awfully uncivilised it is to sentence somebody to death for any crime, no matter how terrible. It's the principle of the thing, you see. It doesn't surprise me to learn there is a section of American society that condemns the whole idea of super-max prisons. What would they prefer? To see a murderer such as Tsarnaev live out his remaining days in some kind of 'utopian' progressive, stress-free environment,just in case in 20 or 30-years time he says "sorry".

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... opprobrium
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Re: Tsarnaev

Post by Gaybutton »

Rogie wrote:All they are concerned about
I believe the real problem is every side of the issue has valid points. What ends up happening is not a decision as to which is more justified. It simply boils down to the personal opinions of those in a position to make the decision.

Either way Tsarnaev is gone. Wherever he is being held until his execution takes place, which easily could be anywhere between 10 to 20 years from now if he fights it, I wouldn't want to be in the same place. While time on "Death Row" is different from super-max, it's not going to be pleasant for him. Good!
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Re: Tsarnaev

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Tsarnaev has not only been sentenced to death, but he's being sent to a Supermax prison, a place many say is worse than death. That's where he's going to be until he's executed. Even if the death sentence is overturned on appeal, he'll still spend the rest of his life there. Good! He'll be there with other fine people including the Unabomber, the shoe bomber, Terry Nichols, and Ramsi Youssef. Timothy McVeigh was held there. The only regret I have about his placement there is he'll be in a place where he won't get raped every day. Oh well, can't have everything . . .
________________________________________________________________________________

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev sent to Colorado's Supermax prison

By Ray Sanchez and Alexandra Field, CNN

(CNN)It's home to Ramzi Yousef, who plotted the 1993 bombing at the World Trade Center; 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui; "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski; and Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber."

When inmates arrive at the United States Penitentiary Administrative-Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado, it immediately becomes clear: ADX, the nation's most secure Supermax prison, is built to cut them off from the world.

Now that Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 21, has been formally sentenced to death, his final destination will be in the hands of the Federal Bureau of Prisons. On Thursday, he was transferred to the U.S. Penitentiary in Florence, one of several correctional facilities in the city, including Supermax.

The worst of the worst in America's vast prison network are delivered to ADX, the "Alcatraz of the Rockies," in buses, special vehicles, even Black Hawk helicopters.

Heavily armed patrols cruise the sprawling complex. A dozen imposing gun towers rise above squat brick buildings. Walls topped with razor wire partially block the snow-capped mountains.

"As soon as they come through the door ... you see it in their faces," former ADX warden Robert Hood said. "That's when it really hits you. You're looking at the beauty of the Rocky Mountains in the backdrop. When you get inside, that is the last time you will ever see it."

"The Supermax is life after death," said Hood, who served as ADX warden from 2002 to 2005. "It's long term. ... In my opinion, it's far much worse than death."

Many of the more than 400 inmates spend as much as 23 hours a day alone in 7-by-12-foot concrete cells. Meals are slid through small holes in the doors. Bed is a concrete slab dressed with a thin mattress and blankets.

A single window about 42 inches high and 4 inches wide allows some natural light but is made so prisoners cannot see beyond the building. Cells have unmovable stools and desks made of concrete. Solid walls prevent prisoners from seeing other cells or having direct contact with other inmates.

"The architecture of the building is the control," Hood said.

"You're designing it so the inmates can't see the sky. Intentionally. You're putting up wires so helicopters can't land."

Inmates have little contact outside of guards and prison staff. They must wear leg irons, handcuffs and stomach chains when taken outside their cells -- and be escorted by guards. A recreation hour is allowed in an outdoor cage slightly larger than the prison cells. Inside the cage, only the sky is visible.

"You're passing hundreds, hundreds of cameras as metal doors are sliding open and closed," Hood said.

Some cells have radios and black-and-white televisions offering religious, educational and general interest programs.

Mail and conversations are monitored at all times, the current ADX warden, John Oliver, testified at Tsarnaev's sentencing hearing. Inmates at some point may be able to get prison jobs, such as cleaning showers, or move into the general population, Oliver said.

But the level of freedom a prisoner such as Tsarnaev would enjoy is ultimately determined only by the Justice Department and the agencies that investigated and prosecuted him, not the prison staff.

Tsarnaev will likely join other terrorists in the Special Security Unit, also called the H-Unit. These cells are reserved for inmates with DOJ-imposed Special Administrative Measures intended to strictly limit all communications with the outside world.

Only members of a prisoner's legal team and immediate family are permitted to visit. Prisoners sit on the other side of a glass window. They speak over telephones. All personal conversations are monitored, but legal conversations and correspondence with attorneys are considered privileged and private.

"ADX itself has ... become almost entirely a 'lock-down' facility in which prisoners are locked in solitary cells for all but a few hours a week," Amnesty International said in a 2014 report titled "Entombed: Isolation in the U.S. federal prison system."

The Supermax is home to the prison system's most violent inmates as well as convicted terrorists.

"They've been in jail. They've been in prison. They've killed staff. They've killed a visitor," Hood said. "They've earned, if you will, the right to go to Supermax. ... These are terrorists. These are disruptive gang members. They're spies."

A 2012 class action suit against the Bureau of Prisons said "years of isolation, with no direct, unrestrained contact with other human beings" leave some ADX inmates -- particularly those with serious mental illness -- with "a fundamental loss of even basic social skills and adaptive behaviors." They "predictably find themselves paranoid about the motives and intentions of others."

"Once placed into unrestrained contact with other, similarly impaired and paranoid men, the stress on prisoners -- even those with no mental illness -- can be extreme. Assaults and stabbings are common."

Many ADX prisoners "interminably wail, scream and bang on the walls of their cells," the lawsuit said. "Some mutilate their bodies with razors, shards of glass, sharpened chicken bones, writing utensils, and whatever other objects they can obtain. A number swallow razor blades, nail clippers, parts of radios and televisions, broken glass, and other dangerous objects."

Some inmates have "delusional conversations with voices they hear in their heads," the court documents said. Others spread feces, other human waste and body fluids throughout their cells or hurl it at correctional officers.

"I do know that when you put a person in a box for 23 hours a day and you tell them that's the rest of your life, that each person has their own coping skills," Hood said.

"When you see a person disrobing, throwing feces at a staff member going by -- is that mental illness? Is that an issue where they're self-destructing?"

At least six prisoners have committed suicide since ADX opened in 1994, the lawsuit said. Most of the suicides involved prisoners hanging themselves with bedsheets.

"Though I know that I want to live and have always been a survivor, I have often wished for death," Thomas Silverstein, confined for more than 30 years in isolation, including nine in ADX, was quoted as saying in the Amnesty International report. "I know, though, that I don't want to die. What I want is a life in prison that I can fill with some meaning."

Laura Rovner, a University of Denver College of Law professor who has represented ADX prisoners, said reports of conditions at the notorious Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba compare favorably with some conditions at ADX.

"For many people, being confined at ADX in what will amount to a life sentence there really is kind of a form of living death," she said. "It just takes everything away from you. Your existence is limited to the four walls of this small cell and frankly not much else."

The mentally ill and younger inmates are particularly vulnerable, Rovner said.

"This is a person who's going to be vulnerable, who's going to feel the isolation in ways that are more acute," she said of Tsarnaev. "He's presumably going to be alive for a long time. He's looking at spending potentially at least the next 50 years in isolation. It's almost unfathomable."

Prisoners in the H-Unit rarely have access to less-restricted general population units, according to Amnesty International. In 2008, the prison instituted a step-down program for the H-Unit consisting of three phases lasting a minimum of one year -- with each step providing limited privileges.

"If you're the Unabomber and you have an advanced degree ... and know multiple languages, you're going to sit there and read most of the day," Hood said of Kaczynski, who has been described by acquaintances as brilliant.

"But many of the inmates do not have the coping skills. They don't have the reading ability. They don't have the ability to be litigious. So there's no outlet; that's most likely the inmate who is going to throw feces at you."

Prisoner advocates have found that some inmates, despite good conduct, spend years in H-Unit without progressing to the next phase because the Special Administrative Measures were not modified.

Ramzi Yousef is serving two life sentences plus 240 years for his role in two terrorist attacks, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing that killed six people. He has spent more than 15 years in solitary confinement. He's held in H-Unit under Special Administrative Measures and has spent more than two years on step 2 of the step-down program, according to Amnesty International.

Yousef, who has had a clear conduct record for at least five years, has worked as an orderly, which allows him out of his cell a few hours a week to clean other cells. Still, he has been denied access to step 3, and his Special Administrative Measures are renewed each year, the rights group said.

Hood described Yousef as civil but said he isn't as personable as mob turncoat "Sammy the Bull" Gravano.

"Here's a guy the first time you meet him, you actually like him," Hood said of the former Gambino crime family enforcer. "You don't like what he did. But you find a likable person, a person you'd want for your next-door neighbor. He's funny. He's appropriate for relations within the prison setting. You actually feel good to see him every day."

Of Yousef, the ex-warden said: "Regardless of the crime ... regardless of what he's been involved in, he's well-trained. He's disciplined. I would be the enemy even though I am the warden. Yet we also had that civility. I would say good morning, how are the staff treating you?"

During the sentencing phase of Tsarnaev's trial, Oliver, the current ADX warden, portrayed the Supermax prison in the best light possible, describing how inmates in the special security units can mail letters, exercise in their cells, talk on the phone for up to 30 minutes a month and even write books.

Story, photos, and videos: http://us.cnn.com/2015/06/25/us/dzhokha ... index.html
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Re: Tsarnaev

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Good! Probably at least 10 years in the living hell of Supermax while his case is appealed - an exercise in futility - followed by the death sentence being carried out. I'd love to see something similar happen to those ISIS pieces of shit who burnt alive that poor Jordanian soldier. If I had my way, their own deaths would be burning them at the stake alive. I'd like to see how much they enjoy it.
_______________________________________

Boston Marathon bomber moved to Supermax

By Ralph Ellis and Evan Perez, CNN

July 18, 2015

(CNN)Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, sentenced to death in the Boston Marathon bombing, has been moved into Supermax, the nation's most secure federal prison, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

He had been held in USP Florence, a separate prison in Florence, Colorado.

A federal jury sentenced Tsarnaev to death in May for his involvement in the 2013 bombings at the marathon. Two women and an 8-year-old boy were killed and more than 260 people were injured.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons was in charge of determining whether Tsarnaev was placed in Supermax or death row at the penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana, to wait out the lengthy appeals process.

Supermax is home to criminals such as Ramzi Yousef, who plotted the 1993 bombing at the World Trade Center; 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui; "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski; and Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber."

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/17/us/bo ... google_cnn
_____________________________________________________


Boston Marathon Bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Moved to Supermax Prison

by Phil Helsel

July 18, 2015

Convicted Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has been transferred to a Colorado supermax prison, according to federal prison records.

The Bureau of Prisons on Friday listed Tsarnaev, 21, as being housed in the United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado.

Tsarnaev was convicted in April and sentenced to death on June 24 for the terror attack that killed three people on April 15, 2013. He was flown from the Federal Medical Center in Massachusetts to the Federal Correctional Institution in Florence, Colorado, after the sentence was handed down.

The United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility, also known as ADX or "supermax," has been called a clean version of hell. It is the most restrictive prison in America.

Prisoners spend about 23 hours a day in solitary confinement in 12-by-7-foot cells with a single 4-inch-wide window and walls thick enough to stifle any attempts at communication. A slot in the door is used to deliver meals and for any visits. Some inmates, including convicted terrorists, are placed in a special section where even tighter restrictions are imposed.

Tsarnaev is expected to ultimately end up on federal death row at the U.S. Penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bos ... on-n394296
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Re: Tsarnaev

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This shows that the legal system in the US, and in Europe as well, is fundamentally flawed. The Supermax probably costs as much to build and to operate as a university. Incarcerating someone there costs far more than most people earn. The Boston bombing was 2 years (!!!) ago. Such cases must be solved faster and cheaper.
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Re: Tsarnaev

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christianpfc wrote:This shows that the legal system in the US, and in Europe as well, is fundamentally flawed.
I agree with you in part. My problem with the death penalty is the length of time it takes in the USA before the sentence is carried out. It usually takes between 10 to 20 years before the penalty is actually carried out, if it ends up carried out at all, due to all the appeals. I've never understood what takes so long for these appeals. I don't see why it should take more than a few months - a year at most. Nevertheless, that's the way it works. I have no objection to my taxes paying to house people like Tsarnaev in a Supermax hell while they wait out their fate. Personally, I'd like to see people like that placed in even worse conditions.

I've also never understood how the people who insist the death penalty is not a deterrent can really know that. Maybe it didn't deter the criminals who committed murders, but how can anyone possibly know how many people didn't kill anyone for fear of the death penalty?
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Re: Tsarnaev

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Gaybutton wrote: I've also never understood how the people who insist the death penalty is not a deterrent can really know that. Maybe it didn't deter the criminals who committed murders, but how can anyone possibly know how many people didn't kill anyone for fear of the death penalty?
The mind of a murderer is a closed book to anyone but himself. However, criminologists are of the opinion the death penalty is not a deterrent.
Nearly 78% of those surveyed said that having the death penalty in a state does not lower the murder rate. In addition, 91% of respondents said politicians support the death penalty in order to appear tough on crime – and 75% said that it distracts legislatures on the state and national level from focusing on real solutions to crime problems. Over all, 94% agreed that there was little emperical evidence to support the deterrent effect of the death penalty. And 90% said the death penalty had little effect overall on the committing of murder. Additionally, 91.6% said that increasing the frequency of executions would not add a deterrent effect, and 87.6% said that speeding up executions wouldn't work either.
Based on this, one could argue that, at a conservative estimate, for every ten people prepared to commit murder, only two or three will be deterred by the prospect of the death penalty for their crime, although that's just my interpretation of these stats and isn't much more than a wild guess.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-8 ... -deterrent
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Re: Tsarnaev

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Rogie wrote:that's just my interpretation of these stats and isn't much more than a wild guess.
That's my point. What you quoted are percentages of what criminologists say. What the article does not say is how they arrive at those figures. None of those percentages are 100, meaning some criminologists disagree. If the possibility of severe punishment is not a deterrent, do any of the criminologists have any workable ideas as to what is a deterrent?

In any case, whether it's a deterrent or not, I'm among those who believe in severe punishment for criminals who commit such heinous acts. What else should be done with them, get them to promise not to do it again and let them go?

Many say such punishments are merely revenge. Ok, maybe somebody can convince me that revenge is not a justifiable punishment in cases such as terrorism. Personally, the only thing I have against the Supermax is there is only one.

Personally, this would be one time when I would be delighted to find out the government is lying and Tsarnaev is not really even in the Supermax, but instead in the Black Hole of Calcutta.
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Re: Tsarnaev

Post by christianpfc »

Gaybutton wrote:I have no objection to my taxes paying to house people like Tsarnaev in a Supermax hell while they wait out their fate. Personally, I'd like to see people like that placed in even worse conditions.
But I would like to see my tax money spent on something useful.

Why do people focus on death sentence as a deterrent? Death sentence is the only 100% safe way to make sure the person who gets it doesn't commit the same crime again. There are criminals who are in and out of prison multiple times. And in time of overpopulation and unemployment, we should be much more generous with death sentence.
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Re: Tsarnaev

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christianpfc wrote: And in time of overpopulation and unemployment, we should be much more generous with death sentence.
In a relatively short time , in the West, mankind's mind set seems to have undergone a quite fundamental change in its attitude towards this. How many countries pre-WW2 had abolished (or maybe never had) the death penalty? I haven't looked this up but would guess very few, maybe a handful. Now the whole of western Europe is a capital punishment-free zone. Why were these countries so confident putting people convicted of serious crimes to death was right but now think it is wrong? The reason must be because their legislators decided it should be so. Almost all legislators are well bred, and these mostly middle-class liberals living a nice cosy life untroubled by strife (70 years of relative peace in western Europe), not having to worry about eking out a meagre life in a crime-infested and drug-fueled inner city, can afford the luxury of patronising those who haven't moved on or 'progressed from the old ways'.

Having said that, I said in a previous post (#7) in this thread I would not be in favour of reintroducing the death penalty in my home country, and I am certainly not a member of the liberal elite. The reason is because it's polarised public opinion so much we have on the one hand the bleeding liberals who wouldn't so much as harm a fly, and on the other hand the hanging and flogging brigade foaming at the mouth eager to reintroduce the death penalty, and so any public discussion would be hi-jacked by extremists.

In countries who've abolished the death penalty I would say it's better to leave it as it is and accept the fait accompli. In those which haven't, it's important we allow the debate to continue. I don't think simply doing something because others do it is the best way to make decisions.
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