Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

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Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by Gaybutton »

Temple must give up tigers

by Apinya Wipatayotin

20 Apr 2015

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Wat Pa Luangta Bua Yanasampanno, known colloquially as the Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi, must give up its 147 tigers to the Department of National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation by Friday, the department chief says.

Nipon Chotiban said yesterday the department has told the temple to hand over the tigers, or risk having them seized. The department has a legitimate role to take care of wildlife, not the temple, he said.

The department first announced the seizure of 10 tigers kept at the temple about a decade ago because the temple had no permit to keep them.

However, officials then asked the temple to help take care of the animals instead of taking them back. Mr Nipon said he did not know why the authorities wanted the temple to take care of the tigers.

He said the number of tigers has since increased from 10 to 147, and the temple has no permits to keep them. The department now wants it to hand them over.

Mr Nipon issued the order after his officials raided the temple in February due to complaints the temple was linked to wildlife trafficking and possible maltreatment of the animals. The outcome of the investigation has yet to be released.

He said staff plan to transfer the confiscated tigers to the Khao Pra Thap Chang Wildlife Breeding Centre in Chom Bung district and Khao Son Wildlife Breeding Centre in Suan Phung district in Ratchaburi province.

Former department chief Damrong Pidech once tried to move the tigers to the wildlife breeding centre, but failed due to strong protests by the temple.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... -up-tigers
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by Gaybutton »

Temple's tigers can stay, for now

24 Apr 2015

Wildlife officials began a headcount Friday of nearly 150 tigers kept by monks at a temple which has become the centre of a dispute over the welfare of the animals.

Wat Pa Luangta Maha Bua in Kanchanaburi province -- commonly known as the "Tiger Temple" -- has long proved a hit among tourists who flock there to visit the monks and be photographed next to their huge feline pets.

But the authorities say the temple has been keeping the animals without the proper paperwork and have vowed to seize them, sparking standoffs in recent weeks between officials and angry monks blocking their way.

Thailand's Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation said earlier this week it planned to take the animals away on Friday.

But when officials arrived at the temple Friday morning they contented themselves with counting the tigers, most of whom are microchipped, to ascertain how many there are in the sanctuary.

"We have come to check and scan the tigers to see whether the numbers match what we have or not," DNP official Somsak Poopet told AFP, adding his department said they had been told there should be 147 tigers at the temple.

Asked whether the department would consider seizing the animals he replied: "We have that idea, but in our actions so far it has not reached that process yet."

Unlike previous visits, the monks did not object to officials entering the sanctuary, an AFP photographer on the scene said.

The tigers were led out in groups of four and tied to a tree to allow officials to scan their microchips.

The headcount was sparked by allegations from a temple vet earlier this week who complained to police that three tigers had recently disappeared from the sanctuary, sparking fears they may have been sold on.

Local animal-rights groups have accused the temple of failing to properly look after the tigers.

In February, wildlife officials said they conducted a raid and discovered dozens of hornbills, jackals and Asian bears that were being kept at the sanctuary without the correct permits.

"I think a lot of the people here are very motivated, I think they really love the animals, but they're doing it absolutely the wrong way," Edwin Wiek, founder of Wildlife Friends Foundation Thailand, which has campaigned to have the tigers removed, told AFP.

"Wildlife management, whether that's in the wild or captivity, comes with a lot of knowledge, a lot of rules, a lot of dos and don'ts. And walking around with adult tigers like this, that could snap their mood at any time, is an accident waiting to happen," he added.

Temple authorities were unavailable for comment Friday. But they insist they are a genuine conservation project and have previously denied allegations that they have failed to look after the animals or illegally traffic in them.

Story and photos: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... ay-for-now
________________________________________________________

DNP, temple achieve an agreement on tigers

THE NATION
April 25, 2015

After what began as a big showdown, the Tiger Temple in Kancha-naburi and wildlife officials finally found middle ground yesterday by agreeing that the 146 tigers would be kept in the temple compound but would be seen as state assets.

Each tiger will be registered and electronically tagged.

However, the agreement between Wat Pa Luang Ta Maha Bua and the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation (DNP) does not include the Asian white-chested bear and hornbills - both endangered and protected species. The department will still proceed with taking action over the charge of possessing protected species against the temple.

In a joint statement yesterday, the temple and its foundation are required to ensure there is no cross-breeding of Bengal tigers as per DNP regulations. The two sides have also agreed that the search for three missing tigers will continue.

An agreement has also been made on three conditions: The offspring of all tigers will be registered and considered state assets; they can't be exploited for commercial purposes; and registration and micro-chipping of all tigers will be made mandatory.

Deputy DNP director-general Adisorn Nuchdamrong said the department did not mean to snatch away the tigers as it did a few weeks ago. "We just wanted to do the right thing according to law," he said, adding that the temple should apply for a licence for operating a zoo and should hire adequate staff to provide care for the tigers. He said it should also control the tiger population.

DNP officials and temple staff did a headcount of the tigers yesterday, with the animals divided in groups of four and tied to a tree to allow officials to scan their microchips.

Provincial Governor Wanchai O-sukhonthip said the bears and the hornbills would not be moved away from the temple, as part of the agreement, but did not refer to DNP's plan to proceed with action in this regard.

General Niphat Thonglek, an adviser to the National Legislative Assembly on wildlife and environment protection, who mediated talks between the two sides, said he welcomed the development.

Story and photos: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nationa ... 58745.html
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by Captain Kirk »

Tigers are stunning animals. Their place in the grand scheme of things should not be sitting idly by while having their coat stroked by a bunch of tourists.
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

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Captain Kirk wrote:Their place in the grand scheme of things
I think most would agree with that, but most, if not all, of these tigers - nearly 150 of them - were born and raised in captivity. What is the alternative? If they are released into the wild somewhere they would either be killed or would starve to death. They never learned how to hunt, never learned to protect themselves, and have no fear of humans. If they are sent to zoos, I don't see how their lives would be any better than where they are right now.

I would think the solution would be to neuter them. That way at least they could live out their lives and there would be no further problems about more tigers born into this type of life. On the other hand, the numbers of wild tigers are decreasing as their natural habitat is becoming smaller and smaller. Even existing expansive wildlife sanctuaries don't seem to be the solution because of problems with poachers.

If things go on like this, eventually there won't be any wild tigers left at all. They'll all end up living in captivity or be doomed to extinction.
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by lvdkeyes »

Gaybutton wrote: I would think the solution would be to neuter them. .... On the other hand, the numbers of wild tigers are decreasing......

If things go on like this, eventually there won't be any wild tigers left at all.
Don't you think neutering them will reduce the tiger population? Bad idea!!!!!
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by Gaybutton »

lvdkeyes wrote:Don't you think neutering them will reduce the tiger population? Bad idea!!!!!
No, I think neutering them is a good idea, but only part of what ought to be done. The point is to reduce, not increase, the tiger population at this temple and anywhere else where large numbers of tigers are kept in captivity. I agree with Captain Kirk. Tigers are not meant to be kept as pets, completely dependent on humans to care for them. I think tigers should be able to lead the life they were born to lead - in the wild, not large numbers of them in captivity in one place. I feel the same way about the Si Racha Tiger zoo.

The first article points out that the temple started with 10 tigers. A decade later, now the population is 147 tigers. That's what I think is a bad idea. If nothing is done and that trend continues, a decade from now the tiger population at the temple will be well over 1000. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. What happens then? What's to be done with them?

There's no way to train these tigers, especially considering how many of them are kept in captivity and were born in captivity, to be able to be returned to the wild.
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by lvdkeyes »

I don't agree with you. Having been to the temple a few times, I saw the tigers well cared for and have sufficiently large areas for them. Since their natural habitats are being eroded away, I see this as a good alternative. That's just MHO.
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by Gaybutton »

lvdkeyes wrote:That's just MHO.
And mine is also MHO. I've been there too. In my opinion, the fact that so many of them have to be cared for at all is the problem. If nothing is done to stabilize or, I think better still, reduce the population, what does the future hold for them? I have no objection to a few tigers, but 147 of them? With their population steadily and rapidly increasing? It won't be long before none of the tigers are really tigers anymore - just tame pets. I think that's wrong and not how tigers should have to live.

Of course, even if the government did step in and remove the tigers, remove them to where? They would live under what conditions? They might be better off where they are - for the present, but I don't think more and more tigers living there is a good solution or good for the tigers or good for their future.

What I'd like to see is future generations of them being trained to be able to survive in the wild, and then return them to the wild. I don't know how that could be done, but if it can be done, I think it should be done.

However, it's all academic. In the end they're going to do whatever they want, despite any consequences or solutions to long term problems.
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by lvdkeyes »

Gaybutton wrote: What I'd like to see is future generations of them being trained to be able to survive in the wild, and then return them to the wild.
Wild? What wild are you talking about? It is all being encroached upon. Anyway, we have different points of view.
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Re: Thailand's famous Tiger Temple to lose its tigers

Post by Gaybutton »

lvdkeyes wrote:Wild? What wild are you talking about? It is all being encroached upon.
The same wild where their natural habitat is. Dozens and dozens of tigers living on the grounds of temple is not my idea of the best place for them to be.

What needs to be stopped is the encroachment, along with the poaching. Do you really think tigers housed in an environment unnatural to them, totally dependent on humans, is the right way for tigers to live? I'm sorry these tigers can't live their lives as nature intended and that's why I'm in favor of neutering them so that future generations won't have to live that way.

What do you think will happen if they're not neutered? I've asked a few questions about that in posts above, but you haven't addressed them. If my idea is a bad idea, then I'd say letting things continue status quo would a far worse idea. I can't think of a better idea.

14 times as many tigers as they started with in 10 years. What happens 10 years from now? 20 years. 30 years. What will be the answer then when the tiger population gets to be so large that there is no longer a way to cope with it, euthanizing them? What else could be done with them?

Yes, we definitely have different points of view. My solution is to neuter them. Not necessarily all of them, but enough to at least keep their population in check. If it were up to me, that would be my solution. What would be yours?
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