Boris Johnson

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Captain Kirk
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Captain Kirk »

So Brexit is a shambles. Problem for Johnson is that if it does not go ahead in October he is going to look like a total tithead. Can he afford failure on a personal basis? If he does not deliver Brexit the Tory vote will collapse at the inevitable election with Farage picking up many of the leave brigade.
All very tedious yet somehow fascinating at the same time.
fountainhall

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by fountainhall »

In promoting himself (which is all he ever does) and his Brexit negotiations, Boris Johnson inexplicably compared himself to The Incredible Hulk. Yesterday that came back to haunt him.

In Luxembourg for what had been termed a key meeting with EU officials to illustrate that Brexit talks were moving towards a deal and continue what he has been describing for weeks as "progress in discussions", he was totally humiliated to the point where he failed to turn up for a media conference with the Prime Minister of Luxembourg. "His Brexit negotiations [are] in tatters!"

Guy Verhofstadt, the chief Brexit representative for the European parliament, used the opportunity to ridicule Johnson, tweeting this heading and photo -

Image

Johnson's day had started badly when he was met by protesting British residents of Luxembourg with chants of “bollocks to Brexit” and “bog off Boris”. Then, following a working lunch with the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, the European commission issued a statement disclosing that Juncker had told the prime minister that it was his responsibility to come forward with legally operational solutions and that “such proposals have not yet been made”, in direct contradiction of the Johnson’s many recent claims.

With Johnson's place at the lectern empty, the Prime Minster rebuked him in no uncertain terms.
He mocked the varying suggestions in recent weeks from Johnson that there had been good progress in the Brexit talks and that it would take the strength of the comic hero, the Incredible Hulk, to leave the EU with a deal.
johnson's lies exposed for all to see!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference
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Gaybutton
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Gaybutton »

fountainhall wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am Boris Johnson inexplicably compared himself to The Incredible Hulk.
He should have compared himself to Donald Trump. As far as I can tell, two peas out of the same pod. They even physically resemble each other.

Those of you from the UK, what do you think? Will Boris Johnson last or will he be, shall we say, "evicted"?
tree

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by tree »

Jon Worth is a blogger about EU-Politics. He is making Brexit diagrams with all the possibilities that could happen and an estimated likelyhood for each possibility.
Here you find the newest one:
https://techpolitics.eu/downloads/brexi ... ext-19.pdf
His current estimate: "Chances Johnson no longer PM or loses Vote of no Confidence before 17 Oct European Council: 79%"
And a link to his blog:
https://jonworth.eu/
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Captain Kirk
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Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Captain Kirk »

Gaybutton wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:13 pm
fountainhall wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:17 am Boris Johnson inexplicably compared himself to The Incredible Hulk.
He should have compared himself to Donald Trump. As far as I can tell, two peas out of the same pod. They even physically resemble each other.

Those of you from the UK, what do you think? Will Boris Johnson last or will he be, shall we say, "evicted"?
They are so alike it's uncanny. Consummate liars, racists, womanisers and prone to childish name calling.

Strange times for Uk politics GB. Under normal circumstances he'd be up against it and if Labour had another smarmy Blair type used car salesman as their leader then his days would be numbered. However Labour instead has Jeremy Corbyn and to say he divides opinion would be the understatement of the year. The fact that Johnson is a better speaker in parliament and is more skilled at lying gives him a chance but Brexit is the issue that will decide the next election. There are too many possibilities with that to try to second guess at this moment in time.
fountainhall

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by fountainhall »

Assuming Boris Johnson does not end up in jail for pushing through Brexit against he decision of parliament, my view from afar is that there will be a General Election before the end of the year and this will result in a hung parliament. It amazes me that parliament is totally split on the issue of Brexit and that Brexit will almost certainly be the key issue in an election. Assuming that is the case, why neither of the major parties want a second referendum with very clear and simple questions (along with their specific consequences) I find staggering. It would settle once and for all what the British public, unaided by fake promises and now more aware of what a Brexit vote really means, wants. Perhaps then parliament could get on with the business governing rather than petty squabbling. And perhaps then a General Election would not be necessary.
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Re: Boris Johnson

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fountainhall wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:13 am ....why neither of the major parties want a second referendum with very clear and simple questions (along with their specific consequences) I find staggering.
Simples really. Think about themselves first, country second (or even as just an afterthought).
Boris PROMISED we would leave so a second referendum ending in UK staying in Europe means his career is over, totally and completely over and as Johnson's only concern is himself then he can't allow that to happen.
Corbyn doesn't know whether to stick or twist. Trying not to upset either side of the divide he's saying as little as he can on the subject. As it seems no resolution has any kind of majority he's against every suggestion made.
Now we have the Lib Dems who are simply going to tell the Brexiteers that their opinion means nothing to them. If they won an election they are going to cancel Brexit. No second referendum, nothing. Putin would be so proud.

I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the idea of Brexit being cancelled with all that's gone on up to now. Three years of Parliamentary division and gridlock and then what? it's all off?
It's like Bobby coming out of the shower in Dallas all over again.
Jun

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Jun »

For once, I'm tending to mostly agree with Captain Kirk's views here......

However, I would say that in the event of the Liberals gong into an election with a clear manifesto pledge to cancel Brexit AND winning a majority, then they would arguably have a democratic mandate to cancel Brexit. Of course, even with a majority, they would be unlikely obtain more than 50% of the vote, so the other side could complain this shouldn't overturn a referendum which had more than 50% of the vote for Brexit.

However, the first past the post system has been used for a very long time and has been accepted.
For me, them winning a majority would be a satisfactory mandate.
However, I personally don't have a particularly entrenched position on Brexit & winning a referendum might be better for quietening the rest of the country down.

The Liberals last won a majority in 1906. Them winning next time seems unlikely, although in England and Wales, it is the only logical option for remainers.

Corbyn seems to want to object to every single outcome, except for remaining within the customs union. That's a Brexit where we take EU rules, but have no say in setting them. So in my view, remaining in the EU is better than this option.

I suspect Boris Johnson knows he needs to negotiate a better deal to get it approved. He also knows the only way to do that is to have a credible bluff of being prepared to leave with no deal. If we leave with no deal, the EU has a huge hole in the budget and all those German cars get 10% tariffs. So the EU would also be keen to avoid that. However, if we negotiate from the stance that the UK will only leave with a deal, then the EU has no reason to concede on any point. So that's not even a negotiation.

Looking back, it is interesting to remember that the Conservatives took us into the European Community. The Conservatives pushed for the single European market. Meanwhile, in the 1983 election, the Labour party had a pledge to take us out of Europe under Michael Foot. Roles have changed around somewhat.
tree

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by tree »

Even if there would be a 2nd referendum, it could never be fair. The outcome can so easily be manipulated by the available choices.
What choices would you offer?
a) REMAIN + b) LEAVE => that's too simple, people have the right to more exactly know what they will get
a) REMAIN + b) LEAVE deal + c) LEAVE no deal => unfair, because the LEAVE votes will be cut in two pieces and remain will win
a) REMAIN + b) LEAVE and then on a second level more detailed choices? => too complicated
Not that easy ... what would you do?
fountainhall

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by fountainhall »

Perhaps worth remembering that the 2016 national referendum was not the first on membership of the EU. One was held in 1975. Although it was non-binding, this was the first-ever national referendum to be held in the UK. 67% of those who voted supported EU membership.

I have little doubt that the continuing recession following the 2008 worldwide financial crash and the austerity budgets which followed in an effort to mitigate the effects of the crash, were in large part the reason why many voted against Bresit in 2016. But Britain in 1975 was also in a pretty disastrous economic situation thanks to the first oil shock which drove prices up by almost 400%.

My view is that it is quite wrong for any political party to campaign for a general election on the basis of just one issue. The electorate should have a choice of parties with a variety of differing (and sometimes similar) issues. So I totally favour a second referendum, along with a mandate that if Brexit again comes out on top, the governing party or coalition must complete the process within not less than six months. The questions on the referendum must be very specific and very clear with a small addendum to each choice pointing out the very basic pros and cons. Admittedly that will make a longer voting form, but it will help ensure that all the lying and interference in the last vote are at least partly negated.
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