Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

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gera
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:41 pm

firecat69 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:21 pm
Anyone who thinks this story is almost over is Nuts. All that said I sure wish I had invested in BA 5 years ago. Stock climbed 350% in just 5 years and even now it is up 280% .
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 024504002/
This story is over. With 800(!) test flights Max is undoubtedly the safest plane on the face of the Earth. As for investment in Boeing , it is not too late to invest right now. As forLion air crash, sure I will never fly with this airline. As for Jun attitude, I will quote Warren Buffet: never bet against America you will lose.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:09 pm

Just because you wish it does not make it so. Southwest is the biggest customer for B737 Max and they do not think so.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... 7-max.html

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Jun
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:52 am

gera wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:41 pm
This story is over. With 800(!) test flights Max is undoubtedly the safest plane on the face of the Earth. As for investment in Boeing , it is not too late to invest right now.
Only a fool would think this is over. Wait until the Max is back in service in every continent. Wait to see how it performs over the next 5 years. Wait to see how much this costs Boeing. After all that is cleared up, then it's time to think about it being over.
gera wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:41 pm
I will quote Warren Buffet: never bet against America you will lose.
Now that's a couple of separate topics.
1 If you actually took the time to read up on Warren Buffet and his outstanding vice Chairman, Charlie Munger, there is no way you would be so firmly attached to an irrational position, to the point where you cannot consider an alternative conclusion on a purely rational basis. Charlie Munger and Warren Buffet take great pride in learning new things & modifying their behaviour based on evidence, which is why they have done so well.
No matter what evidence is presented, you wouldn't change your view.

By all means go ahead and plough all your money into Boeing stock. Sell all your assets, leverage up & show even more commitment to your immovable position !

2 Whilst Boeing is not America, history shows that every empire has it's period at the top of the pile, then someone else takes over. Now I'm not going to bet against America on a 30 year horizon. And over 200 years, I wouldn't be in a position to collect on the bet.

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Gaybutton
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Gaybutton » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:29 am

This debate is getting personal. Please stick only to the issue itself, otherwise I'll be deleting posts and/or closing the topic.

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Jun
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:02 am

"Boeing accused of putting profit before safety by Senators"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50225025

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:00 pm

The usual grandstanding by politicians . No doubt Boeing made serious mistakes but so did FAA and other certifying authorities. There is lots of blame to go around and I don't see that they are that close to getting the plane in the air again.

Of course ultimate responsibility falls on Boeing. It is plain their system was flawed and what's worse had no back up.

However it is easy to forget how safe flying is because of Boeing and Airbus . There is a far better chance of getting killed crossing the street then in a commercial airplane.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:07 pm

firecat69 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:00 pm
However it is easy to forget how safe flying is because of Boeing and Airbus . There is a far better chance of getting killed crossing the street then in a commercial airplane.
Yes both airlines have done a terrific job in improving safety in the last few decades.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:38 pm

How many more months before it is back in the air. Beginning to look like next summer at the earliest. You have to wonder why airlines keep submitting future orders? I would guess the price is discounted heavily and deposit requirements are small if any.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 74181.html

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:58 pm

I think there are some reasons why airlines keep ordering the Boeing 737.
Firstly, any low cost airline running a single plane wants to avoid the costs and inflexibility of introducing a second plane. 737 pilots need retraining to fly A320 series aircraft & vice versa.
Secondly, if everyone moved to Airbus, the price and waiting list would go up. [The Comac alternative is not launched and apparently is not fully competitive]
Thirdly, the main concern with the 737 is something that should be straightforward to fix. They need to change from a 1 sensor system to a 3 sensor system & have logic to deal with sensor failures and switch off MCAS automatically, with appropriate warnings. Obviously the 3 sensors need to be in different positions and preferably use different technologies.

What we don't know is what other concerns have been found.

There was quite an interesting documentary on the African crash last week. It is thought that a bird strike wiped out the sensor on the front of the plane. Once there is a problem, the procedure is to switch off the electric actuation of the fins on the tail of the plane (2 switches), then they need to manually adjust them, which is quite a clunky system where they need to rotate wheels to move the fins via cables. Many turns of the wheels are needed and according to simulation, the pilots had about 4 seconds to respond before it gets to the stage where the aerodynamic load on the tail would make it too difficult to move manually. That's to correct a problem with an MCAS system pilots were not even informed about.
The African pilots did switch off the electric actuation and were unable to manually adjust the tail fins, presumably due to the high aero forces.

Of course, if the crashes and subsequent investigations have identified additional concerns, a fix may be much slower. For example if the effort to manually move the tail fins can be too high.

Considering all this, I don't understand why the Boeing CEO is still in his job.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by windwalker » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:40 pm

Jun wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:58 pm

Considering all this, I don't understand why the Boeing CEO is still in his job.
I believe he was terminated one month ago.

https://onemileatatime.com/boeing-fires ... airplanes/

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