Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

gera wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:12 am
Apparently Lion Air provided false information about maintenance of crashed Boeing. Why I am not surprised?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium
Apparently Boeing mislead the regulators about the scope of the MCAS system, so that's the same thing.

Furthermore, Boeing screwed up massively by creating this system that relies on just one sensor with no plausibility checking. Having worked on safety critical systems myself, I am astonished by this shoddy work and Boeing deserve all of the problems resulting from this.

I see Boeing have a new chairman, but it looks like reshuffling the deck chairs, when some of them should be kicked out for allowing the company to get to this situation. The Romans had the right idea, requiring their engineers to stand under bridges when the construction supports were removed.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera »

Boeing continues to produce hundreds of new max 737 WITHOUT ANY CHANGES IN HARDWARE in the original design. The only change is in software update. To the best of my knowledge FAA currently does not have any problems with aircraft. The only problem is European regulator which insists on more tests (and obviously have a conflict of interests ). To me this is the proof that aircraft was always airworthy. As for unfortunate crashes I squarely blame two airlines involved which failed to properly maintain the plane and allowed flights with malfunctioned sensor.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

gera wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:10 pm
Boeing continues to produce hundreds of new max 737 WITHOUT ANY CHANGES IN HARDWARE in the original design. The only change is in software update. To the best of my knowledge FAA currently does not have any problems with aircraft. The only problem is European regulator which insists on more tests (and obviously have a conflict of interests ). To me this is the proof that aircraft was always airworthy. As for unfortunate crashes I squarely blame two airlines involved which failed to properly maintain the plane and allowed flights with malfunctioned sensor.
None of this is relevant.

Killing people with poor software is the same as killing them with poor hardware.

Producing aircraft that they cannot deliver because the FAA and every other certification authority doesn't approve the aircraft to fly does not mean the aircraft has always been safe.

Anyone with experience of working on safety critical control systems knows you don't rely on one sensor prone to failure, without having some kind of redundancy in the system.

Who is to blame is best decided by someone with appropriate technical qualifications, experience of engineering and experience of working on safety critical control systems. Apportioning blame doesn't count for much without the expertise in safety critical systems.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera »

Jun wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:17 pm
None of this is relevant.
Actually everything in your post totally irrelevant because it does not take into consideration concrete situation and concrete facts. Frankly, amount of insinuations, lies and bullshit posted on this thread (not necessarily by you) is staggering. As for facts: final simulations tests are scheduled on beginning of November. It will last for one week followed by certification flight. Hope it will be the end of the story.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/17/politics ... index.html

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

gera wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:10 am
Actually everything in your post totally irrelevant because it does not take into consideration concrete situation and concrete facts.
Would you like to quote the specific pieces of text and explain why I have not taken into account facts that are relevant to those statements ?

If you are going to make a statement like that, it needs to be backed up with evidence to have any credibility. Otherwise it's about on par with writing "you're wrong".

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera »

Jun wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:17 pm
Apportioning blame doesn't count for much without the expertise in safety critical systems.
You treat Boeing as a kind of start up somewhere in Zimbabwe that suddenly decided out of blue to start producing airplanes. In reality Boeing has the best engineering and manufacturing in the field and the record of unbeatable reliability of their products. They are also much more innovative than Airbus. Would such a company build hundreds of airplanes if it would have a slightest doubt in their airworthiness? As investor in the company I do blame the management for the current situation and if it was up to me I would change it right away. But I have absolute confidence in their engineering solutions.

I will not post anything else in this thread until certification flight which I believe is on track in the beginning of November.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

gera wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:27 pm
I have absolute confidence in their engineering solutions.
When I refer to apportioning blame without expertise in safety critical systems, I'm referring to YOU apportioning the blame.
I've seen nothing that suggests you have experience of working on safety critical control systems or how failure modes are mitigated, yet you seem so certain in your thoughts about who is at fault.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

An update from the investigation in Indonesia. Also, Boeing have fired the CEO of their Commercial Aircraft division.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50151573

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 »

Anyone who thinks this story is almost over is Nuts. All that said I sure wish I had invested in BA 5 years ago. Stock climbed 350% in just 5 years and even now it is up 280% .
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 024504002/

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

Be more ambitious :D . I think you really wish you had bought as much Boeing as you possibly could in 1974. It's up about 974x from it's low then, adjusted for splits. So $10,000 would be worth $9.74million. The graph below is on a log scale, which is how ALL decent long term investments should be plotted.

As for current prices, I really don't understand why the share price is so much higher than 5 years ago. They still have Airbus as a competitor and the 737 Max fiasco will cost Boeing many billions.
Comac will launch a 737 competitor in China within the next couple of years. The fifth prototype has just flown. Apparently the performance is not competitive with the 737 & A321, but no doubt they will take some sales in China and then produce a better second generation product within a decade.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201910/2 ... 72597.html

Boeing Stock Price
Image

Disclosure: No position in Boeing, Airbus or Comac.

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