Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

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gera
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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by gera » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:48 pm

Undaunted wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:49 am
I was happy to hear of the killing of a man who had so much American blood on his hands and I think Trump’s threat of targeting 52 Iranian sites should give Iran pause in seeking retaliation.......time will tell!
United States operates in an extremely unfriendly environment in Middle East. The only friendly group of people (besides Israel) are Kurds. America should support independent Kurdistan (initially in the Kurdish area in Iraq). Some time ago Kurds had a referendum in Kurdish part of Iraq where they overwhelmingly voted in favor of independence. Americans should retreat from Iraq and Turkey to an independent Kurdistan which eventually should include parts of Iran, Turkey and Syria. This is the only viable option available (the total retreat is probably unrealistic due to geopolitical considerations).

This is, of course, totally beyond Trump who cares only about his own reelection.

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Gaybutton » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:27 pm

gera wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:48 pm
This is, of course, totally beyond Trump who cares only about his own reelection.
I think that explains the timing of this. To his supporters Trump will be able to pass himself off as a hero who rid the world of a terrorist and along with it, deflect attention from the impeachment. If Trump acted illegally, it's a serious enough move to call for yet more articles of impeachment, meaning more hearings and more delays.

For Trump, I think this was a smart political move. It places the Democrats in a difficult position. If they support this move, they'll anger a lot of people, including some of America's allies. If they criticize it, they have to weigh how lightly or harshly to criticize it - and if they want to win support from swing voters or Trump supporters now having second thoughts, they better get it right.

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Gaybutton » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:15 pm

As everyone probably now knows, Trump is threatening to include Iranian cultural sites if he attacks Iran. I don't know what purpose attacking cultural sites is supposed to serve. That part makes no sense to me. I hope that is prevented, just as Secretary of War, Henry Stimson, refused to allow Kyoto as a potential target of the USA's atomic bomb during World War II.

I'm not familiar with Iranian cultural sites, so I looked up some of the sites Trump might target. See: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/on- ... n-his-list

None of us know yet just what Trump has gotten us into, but now I don't see how this stands a chance of ending peacefully. I, for one, don't want to end up suffering consequences of Trump's harebrained actions.

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Gaybutton » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:46 pm

I'm beginning to think it was Mike Pompeo who convinced Trump to stage this incident and do it the way it was done. It would come as no surprise to me if this whole thing was Pompeo's idea.

I do agree with one statement Trump (or his speechwriter) made, though - "Iran has been nothing but trouble" ever since the downfall of the Shah in February, 1979.

I hope they have a good, workable plan in place to deal with the aftermath, but based on what I'm seeing so far in the news, I'm not holding my breath. I'm wondering who and/or what will be the first victim of Iran's retaliation and when it will happen - and then what Trump will do about it. I hope he doesn't manage to plunge us into World War III.
______________________________________________

Pompeo again declines to present evidence of 'imminent' threat that led to strike against Iranian general

by Nicole Gaouette and Jennifer Hansler, CNN

January 7, 2020

Washington (CNN) - Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Tuesday defended the basis for killing Iranian General Qasem Soleimani because of the threat of an imminent strike but declined to present any evidence, saying President Donald Trump's decision was "entirely legal."

"There's been much made about this question of intelligence and imminence," Pompeo said at the State Department. "Any time a president makes a decision of this magnitude, there are multitude pieces of information that come before him."

Pompeo said that senior officials presented Trump with the threats "in broad detail."

The top US diplomat didn't offer any evidence of looming threats, but instead referred to past events that he said Soleimani was responsible for.

"We could see clearly everything Soleimani has done," Pompeo said, pointing to Iran's influence in Lebanon and other countries in the region where he said Tehran has denied people "sovereignty and freedom."

"If you're looking for imminence you need only look at the days that led up to the strike that was taken against Soleimani," Pompeo said, referencing the death of an American contractor in late December. He said the action against Soleimani "fit perfectly within our strategy" for countering Iran.

"It's the right decision, we got it right, the Department of Defense did excellent work," he said, adding that it was an "entirely legal decision."

Pompeo mocked statements by Iraqi and Iranian officials that Soleimani had gone to Baghdad on a diplomatic mission, saying it "wasn't true."

Iraqi Prime Minister Adil Abdul-Mahdi told the Iraqi parliament that Soleiman had traveled to Baghdad to discuss and coordinate a de-escalation of tensions with Saudi Arabia. Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif told CNN Soleiman's mission had been diplomatic in a Tuesday interview with CNN.

Pompeo ridiculed the idea. "Anybody here believe that?" he asked facetiously during the press conference with reporters at the State Department. "Is there any history that would indicate it was remotely possible that this kind gentleman, this diplomat of great order, Qasem Soleimani had traveled to Baghdad for the idea of conducting a peace mission?"

Pompeo went on to say, without presenting evidence, that "we know that wasn't true. We not only know the history, we know in that moment that was not true. Zarif is a propogandist of the first order."

https://us.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/ ... index.html

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by gera » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:51 pm

I find at least one aspect of the current situation totally outrageous. It is absolutely clear that Israel played no role in current events. And yet Iran threatens to hit Israel. Iran is in position to inflict substantial damage to Israel not only through their proxies in Gaza and Lebanon but also by a direct strike by ballistic missiles (currently 2000 km of possible impact). Although Israel has their Iron Dome anti-missile system , it at present time cannot protect Israel against ballistic missiles. What is not so well-known is that Israel has some of the best ballistic missiles of its own and rather sophisticated supersonic weapons probably the most advanced in the world (despite Putin's claims on Russian monopoly on these weapons). IMHO if Iran strikes Israel with ballistic missiles, Israel has the right to respond with nuclear strikes. I do not see any other deterrent.

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:04 pm

gera wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:51 pm
IMHO if Iran strikes Israel with ballistic missiles, Israel has the right to respond with nuclear strikes.
I think if Iran does strike Israel, I doubt Israel would use nuclear weapons. I think they have plenty of ways to retaliate without resorting to that extreme. Let's hope we don't have to find out what Israel would do.

Iran is also threatening to destroy Dubai.

I'm not so sure Iran would do either unless they are as crazy as Trump. I can't imagine Iran would want to escalate this into a full scale war, but for now we can't be sure what any of these would do. Israel and Dubai have nothing to do with this incident. Would Iran really kill so many innocent people?

That Ukrainian plane that went down shortly after taking off from Tehran - that seems awfully coincidental to me to think it was an accident, but we just don't know yet. If turns out that it was intentional, who did it, how, and why?

I hope this ends with nothing more happening beyond harsh words, insults, and threats.

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Jun » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:02 pm

The Iranians have been crazy for years. One of the few regimes that makes Trump look good.

Threatening the US, Dubai and Israel for a start. That's in addition to firing missiles into Saudi Arabia last year. Part of me would like their regime kicked out before they have the capability to hit Europe with WMD.

However, after George W, can we believe such stories any more ? If they DO have a WMD programme, I would like to see that taken out.

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:37 pm

Jun wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:02 pm
If they DO have a WMD programme, I would like to see that taken out.
Supposedly Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons. If it is true, that needs to be stopped, whether through negotiation or force. Iran cannot be allowed to become capable of using nuclear weapons.

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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Gaybutton » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:08 am


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Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Post by Jun » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:14 pm

Some western leaders are saying evidence shows Iran shot down the Ukrainian plane.

Obviously if Iran has NOT shot the plane down, they would be very keen to immediately facilitate access by independent investigators to the site and black box. Let's see what happens.

The timing would be too much of a coincidence.

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