Don’t Move to Thailand in 2019

[Dodger]

Ironically, one day after responding to this thread, the person I referenced who openly regrets retiring in Thailand just left.

I was returning to the condo from my morning beach walk and saw him entering a taxi with a bunch of suitcases. The taxi pulled away before I had a chance to exchange any words with him, but according to his friends who live on the same floor, he was returning to his home in England because he simply didn't have the financial means to stay here and couldn't get his visa extension approved.

All the bitching and moaning I heard from this guy over the past 2 years about how he hates everything about Thailand, when in reality, he simply didn't earn enough retirement income to meet the minimum requirements. One has to wonder how he was getting his visa renewals approved for the past 8 years since he's been retired here.

[Undaunted]

Dodger, I know 2 who have left and one is leaving soon, only one was unable to meet the new financial requirements and I expect more will follow.
A friend who has left upon me questioning him as I know money was not his concern simply replied I’ve lived here a long time, I still have a place back home so fuck it, I won’t go through hoops for immigration to stay in a place which is just not the same anymore. All three are fortunate as they only rent. The one who said “fuck it” just sold his pickup.

[RichLB]

Yay! Another reason to promote Pattaya. The 90 day reporting window rarely takes more than 10 or 15 minutes before your
number is called and then the update takes about a minute. The yearly visa extension takes about 15 to 30 minutes assuming all your paperwork is in order. I've got to hand it to Pattaya Immigration. They really have efficiency down pat.

[Undaunted]

The 90 day reporting window rarely takes more than 10 or 15 minutes

Yes this is good news and I suspected the waiting times for 90 day and retirement visas will continue to decrease.

[Gaybutton]

The 90 day reporting window rarely takes more than 10 or 15

For me, the last 3 or 4 times I went, I was in and out in less than 5 minutes.

Part of the trick - don't go just before or just after a holiday, especially a major holiday. That's when the waiting time is at its worst.

[traveller123]

All the bitching and moaning I heard from this guy over the past 2 years about how he hates everything about Thailand, when in reality, he simply didn't earn enough retirement income to meet the minimum requirements. One has to wonder how he was getting his visa renewals approved for the past 8 years since he's been retired here.

Just guessing but, if he is British, perhaps he could meet the income requirement when the baht was 1 GBP =50/52 but not at 36/37.
There must be quite a number of people in this situation, even the prudent ones perhaps started their stay when the baht was 70 and factored in a possible fall to 50 but not down to 37

[Dodger]

There must be quite a number of people in this situation, even the prudent ones perhaps started their stay when the baht was 70 and factored in a possible fall to 50 but not down to 37

This could very well be the case.

Dodger, I know 2 who have left and one is leaving soon, only one was unable to meet the new financial requirements and I expect more will follow.

I talked to my neighbors again last night about the abrupt departure of the farang from England. According to his now ex-girlfriend, the guy was upset and paranoid about the visa changes because he had to rely on a very modest retirement income of 32,000 baht/month and had very little money in the bank. She also said that he had nothing back in England to return to and was very concerned about how he'd live on such a small amount once back in his home country. I'm not surprised that there are other farang in similar circumstances who are feeling the crunch right now, and really feel for them, but I guess this is one of the potential risks they should have considered before retiring here.

I'm also not sure about the objectives of the "Good Guys In - Bad Guys Out" initiative. Is it intended to rid Thailand of those with criminal intent, or is it also intended to rid Thailand of farang with low incomes? I guess we'll never know, but I'm assuming there are many farang in this category. Let's face it, Thailand has always been an attractive retirement alternative for people with low or modest incomes for the mere fact that they could enjoy living higher quality lives after retirement in Thailand, as compared to the costs in their home countries. I know a handful of farang in this category.

[Gaybutton]

I'm also not sure about the objectives of the "Good Guys In - Bad Guys Out" initiative. Is it intended to rid Thailand of those with criminal intent, or is it also intended to rid Thailand of farang with low incomes?

I think that both are the objectives of this "initiative", among other things. And if you look at it technically, those living in Thailand under false income pretenses are living here with criminal intent. It may be a soft non-violent crime, but it is still a crime. After all, I have no idea how many, but I do know there were a significant number of farang living in Thailand on monthly incomes far less than the 65,000 baht per month minimum. They were able to obtain their retirement visas and renewals simply by lying to the embassy about their incomes and were always able to get the income affidavit. No matter how you look at it, that's a crime.

So, the reality is they were living in Thailand by lying and cheating. They probably never expected anything to change, but once things did change, now they found themselves in trouble.

I do feel sorry for those forced to leave, especially if they have nothing to go back to, nowhere else to go, and had established a life here.

But I also don't feel sorry for them because they knew what they were cheating and hoped they could get away with it the rest of their lives. It affected those of us who can and do comply with Thai law. My guess is if they were living on low incomes they had no medical insurance and if something happened to them, there was no way they could afford to pay the hospital bills.

As a result, those who wish to do their retirement visas via the 65,000 baht per month method now have to be able to prove to immigration's satisfaction that they really do legitimately have the monthly minimum and aren't trying to fake it. And for those who use the 800,000 baht method, for 5 months out of the year, that money is untouchable, so they better have plenty more to live on than only the 800,000.

Are the people who were living on less than the monthly minimum really "bad guys"? To me, not really all that bad, at least not to the extent they should be forced out. But to immigration, yes they are "bad guys" and Thailand has no stake in letting them continue to live here.

Some people think Thailand doesn't want farang living here. I disagree. I think Thailand does want farang living here, but they only want those farang who are law abiding and able to support themselves without becoming a burden to Thailand. I don't blame Thailand for that.

[fountainhall]

Some people think Thailand doesn't want farang living here. I disagree. I think Thailand does want farang living here, but they only want those farang who are law abiding and able to support themselves without becoming a burden to Thailand. I don't blame Thailand for that.

Nor really do I. But - and it is a big but - let's have fairness. For those who have a reasonable pension after decades of work, the Bt. 65K per month route is as simple as can be! Have the money sent in and then use it to meet monthly expenses. For those who were not in pensionable employment - some, like myself, receiving end of contract bonuses in lieu - the Bt. 800K/400K is mind-bogglingly more unfair.

Until recently, once the retirement visa was renewed, that 800K could be spent, precisely the same as those using the monthly route. Now, how is there any degree of fairness for these individuals having to hand over to a Thai bank 800K/400K which can not be used for any purpose for the rest of their lives? This is even more true of someone who is sitting in a property he has purchased and maintains worth well in excess of 5 million. For what reason - any reason - is that not acceptable in lieu of the 800K/400K? There is no reason. Some have argued that the 800/400 is for emergencies like medical treatment. But the moment that amount falls below those limits, that's bye bye as far as the retirement visa is concerned. Any medical costs over and above the policy limits must be paid out of additional funds.

It's no doubt just another example of someone coming up with a fabulous idea and then mandating it has to be put into practice. On how many occasions in Thailand have we seen this happen without anyone in government or civil service - anyone - considering that there is validity in anything other than a one-for-all rule? Too many for my liking. Civil servants obey their masters. No one actually THINKS! It's not the Thai way.

Just one further point here. Immigration has tightened up its regulations, one reason being to deny the corrupt officials their regular born envelopes. What about the corruption in Thai justice? As an example, 7 years ago the heir to the Red Bull fortune mowed down a traffic cop on Sukhumvit at 5:00 in the morning, dragged his body several hundred yards and then sped off to the family compound. Drugs and alcohol were eventually found in his system. Yet this murderer was permitted bail. He then failed to show up at endless hearings about the case. After several years he fled Thailand in his private jet to Singapore. After yet more time had passed, the Thai government finally asked Interpol to intervene. Yet instead of asking Interpol to issue the "find at all costs" Notice, it requested the much less stringent Red notice. This meant Thailand had to give Interpol an address. Ridiculous!

End result, despite four Red Bull racing cars featuring in 20 Formula 1 motor races each year at which this murderer was probably present. Interpol, with all its massive worldwide resources, allegedly could not find him. Then in March last year, without warning the Red Notice disappeared from the Interpol website! Interpol advised The Bangkok Post that such notices are taken down when "the country which requested it has withdrawn its request."

Naturally a senior police official stated

“Thai police did all they could to bring the suspect to justice. We stated clearly that all member countries should tell us if they find him.”

And if anyone believes that B/S, I'm off to the moon to get some cheese!

Now two charges against the murderer have elapsed. The most serious, that of reckless driving causing death, will remain pending until 2027. I'll put a lot of money on his suddenly appearing back in Thailand in 2028! So much for corruption on such a monstrous scale compared to retirees living illegally for the lack of a few 100K baht!

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... ol-website

[Gaybutton]

let's have fairness.

Good luck with that one. Again, I blame the embassies when proving one's income is usually easy, but the embassies won't cooperate. To a lesser extent I also blame the cheaters.

At this point, I don't think it really matters very much as to who to blame. The only thing I can think of now is for immigration to come up with more reasonable methods of proving income. I wish the ambassadors would pressure Thailand about this because I doubt Thailand will make any significant changes or perhaps make things even worse without such pressure. But as far as I can tell, the ambassadors don't want to make waves and also don't give a damn.