Retirement extension

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Gaybutton
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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:38 am

Dodger wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:18 pm
My exact words were "Will I have to be concerned about this TM30 nonsense because I travel a lot"? He simply looked up at me, smiled, and said the word "Hotels."
A friend of mine who lives in Pattaya just returned a few days ago from the USA. He went to immigration to renew his retirement visa, using the 800,000 baht method.

He was not asked to do the TM30 and he was not asked anything about insurance. None of it was even mentioned by immigration and he renewed his visa with no problems at all.

Unfortunately, that still doesn't mean much or help much. The fact that he was not asked doesn't mean you won't be asked, but to me the significant thing is supposedly people have to file the TM30 or TM28 or whatever when they return from a trip - and he was not asked for either of them.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Undaunted » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:48 am

Unless he is his own landlord why would he be asked to do a TM30? I think the 800,000 method is the easiest but I met Dodger yesterday and as he posted he uses the 65,000 monthly method and claims it was very easy, yes there was quite a fuss over the need for Thai health insurance but it appears as of yet no one has been asked to produce proof of insurance.
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by windwalker » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:38 am

Dodger wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:18 pm
Funny you should ask this. Right when Bon was finished approving my visa extension I asked him about this. My exact words were "Will I have to be concerned about this TM30 nonsense because I travel a lot"? He simply looked up at me, smiled, and said the word "Hotels." You can interpret that any way you choose, but I interpreted this as meaning there is nothing for retired expats to be concerned with, unless you own a hotel.
I would interpret that as, if you travel a lot, the hotels you stay in will submit the TM 30 for you.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:56 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:38 am
Unfortunately, that still doesn't mean much or help much. The fact that he was not asked doesn't mean you won't be asked, but to me the significant thing is supposedly people have to file the TM30 or TM28 or whatever when they return from a trip - and he was not asked for either of them.
As Undaunted mentioned, the TM30 form is required to be completed by landlords (hotels) not by individual travelers/residents. The TM28 is the form that residents are required to complete when traveling outside their home province in excess of 24 hours.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this provision in the law has never been enforced in 40 years, no one is following it, and it couldn't be enforced even if they wanted to. Why this provision hasn't been removed from the law remains a mystery (that's their problem), but it's becoming increasingly clear that Immigration is focused on using this law to get the hotels to start reporting their guests, and not focused on the expat community.

As long as expat retiree's are doing their 90 day reporting, as well as notifying immigration in the event of a change of residence, that is all that the expat community should be concerned with in my opinion. What I just said is technically wrong according to how this law was written, but correct in reality.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:04 am

windwalker wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:38 am
I would interpret that as, if you travel a lot, the hotels you stay in will submit the TM 30 for you.
That's exactly how the law is written as well. And if the hotel simply refuses to do the TM30 reporting (like they've been doing for the past 40 years), the problem is between the hotel and immigration to unravel. At no time should a foreign traveler or resident ever be concerned with the TM30.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:23 am

Dodger wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:04 am
At no time should a foreign traveler or resident ever be concerned with the TM30.
You used my favorite word in Thailand - 'should'.

I go to Bangkok often. Once I have a car again (which I hope will be soon), I'll be doing the same. In Bangkok I always stay at the Malaysia Hotel. They do the TM30. But even when I return to Pattaya and have stayed in Bangkok more than 24 hours (the hotels do record your checkout date and time), I have never gone to immigration to let them know I've come home. I have never been questioned about it, never asked to file any kind of documentation, and I don't intend to start doing so now unless immigration forces us to.

It seems to me Pattaya immigration is being sensible about it, but you still never know what any of the immigration offices are going to do.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:07 pm

Gaybutton wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:23 am
Dodger wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:04 am
At no time should a foreign traveler or resident ever be concerned with the TM30.
I have never been questioned about it, never asked to file any kind of documentation, and I don't intend to start doing so now unless immigration forces us to.
I'm with you.

Immigration really has a tiger by the tail. They simply can't manage the important immigration tasks any longer without having reliable information in their information systems (databases) which they are obviously lacking. Case and point: If you look at Demographic Reports on Thailand you will see that the number of foreigners residing in Thailand is unknown. All they can provide are very rough estimates, which, for all practical purposes, are deemed by experts as being unreliable. It's the responsibility of Immigration to collect and report these numbers. The TM30 requirements were carved in Thai law 40 years ago but this requirement was not monitored or enforced by immigration (root cause of problem), nor were the hotels complying with the requirements (effects of the problem), which led them to the mess they have today. Their Mess - Not Ours!

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:23 pm

Dodger wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:07 pm
Their Mess - Not Ours!
I think immigration staff doesn't want to have to deal with this nonsense any more than we do. They would be stuck dealing with mountains of totally useless paperwork in already overcrowded immigration offices that they know will only be filed away, never to be seen again. And they already deal with mountains of useless paperwork. For what?

Instead of adding to the paperwork burdens for foreigners and immigration staff, it would make much more sense for the powers-that-be to be reducing paperwork rather than adding even more. But making sense in Thailand . . . ?

And regarding these filing web sites of theirs that don't work, I'd like to know why they don't hire somebody or a company that actually knows how to create a web site and make it work. If they had hired Moses, that problem would have been solved long ago.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Dodger » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:19 pm

Gaybutton wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:23 pm
And regarding these filing web sites of theirs that don't work, I'd like to know why they don't hire somebody or a company that actually knows how to create a web site and make it work. If they had hired Moses, that problem would have been solved long ago.
I think the reason it doesn't work is because they aren't motivated to get it to work.

If the website did work as intended (quick & easy), and farang started completing and uploading these ridiculous forms whenever they took a trip outside their province, Immigration would immediately be buried under 10 tons of meaningless forms that they are not staffed to handle. The blame for unreported TM28 forms would then be shifted to them, which is exactly what they don't want. They simply can't handle it. The form is useless. Nobody wants it (on either side of the fence), and eventually it will die a slow death.

The TM30 (hotel form) has a different purpose, but Immigration will face the same exact nightmare if all hotels do in fact start dumping thousands of TM30 forms per day in their system. Let's face it, Immigration still operates in the Fred Flintstone age with hand sharpened pencils and stacks of paper sliced off trees. Expecting Immigration clerks to review and process thousands of electronic forms daily - would be like expecting Noah to cram another 32,000 species of animals inside that, already overflowing, handmade boat of his. It simply won't happen.

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