Retirement extension

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Undaunted
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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Undaunted » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:15 pm

ceejay wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:03 pm
fountainhall wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:48 am
Considering the 65K has to be shown to have been received monthly from an overseas source, I wonder why this has never - in my experience - been a requirement for those using the Bt. 800K route.
Do you think you could wonder quietly, to yourself, rather than in public? I don't suppose it matters much here, but I am genuinely convinced that hysterical postings on Thai Visa were to blame for the whole TM30 nonsense.
Then a bunch of hysterical old queens on there started flapping around like wet hens, saying that everybody now needed TM30's and generally squawking that the sky was falling.
Surely you do not believe it is limited to Thai Visa :!:
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by ceejay » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Gaybutton wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm
Am I missing something? What does the TM30 form have to do with the retirement visa extension or fountainhall's post?
I could perhaps have been clearer. I am giving the TM30 debacle as an example of what I believe can happen when folks start to speculate on what might happen - and before you know where you are, someone has started talking to Immigration about it.

Perhaps I should revise the last paragraph of my previous post to:

With this example of the damage that can be caused by gossip and panic in mind, we should stick to discussing what Immigration is actually doing about the 800K baht. I would suggest we should not speculate on what they might do, or why the rules concerning its source are not tighter. If one of these speculative and unfounded ideas takes hold, and people too stupid to tie their own bootlaces start asking Immigration and the agents about it, it might just happen.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Dodger » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:06 pm

ceejay wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:43 pm
Gaybutton wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:11 pm
Am I missing something? What does the TM30 form have to do with the retirement visa extension or fountainhall's post?
If one of these speculative and unfounded ideas takes hold, and people too stupid to tie their own bootlaces start asking Immigration and the agents about it, it might just happen.
Immigration is used to fielding questions from stupid people all the time and I seriously doubt that this has ever resulted in them changing the ways things happen.

It's only natural that people who are interested in a topic, especially a topic that's controversial and impacts them personally, to speculate. I'm not saying that everyone is interested in speculating - just some. Others prefer to sit on the sidelines and not take part in these type of discussions which of course is fine. But to suggest that everyone should be sitting on the sidelines and not taking part in these discussions is like telling everyone to leave the ball park because you don't like the game of baseball.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:12 pm

Dodger wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:06 pm
Immigration is used to fielding questions from stupid people all the time and I seriously doubt that this has ever resulted in them changing the ways things happen.
I don't know - ceejay just may have a point about that. Perhaps some of those questions were at least somewhat of a contributing factor as to why different immigration offices do things differently from each other and make up their own rules.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by ceejay » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:31 pm

Dodger wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:06 pm
..........is like telling everyone to leave the ball park because you don't like the game of baseball.
A false analogy, I am afraid. If I do not like the game of baseball, it makes no difference to me whether a game goes ahead or not.

If, on the other hand, speculative gossip has, as I believe, the potential to be harmful to all holders of retirement extensions, then it has the potential to be harmful to me. I have a stake in it.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Dodger » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:32 am

Thanks to the discussions and speculating we've done on this board regarding retirement extensions I was able to get a head start on establishing direct deposits which will now enable me to get my next extension approved using the method I prefer. My decision to do this was made during the period where Immigration was in a tail-spin over this and the Plans were not fully implemented.

Our discussions (and speculation) also motivated me to obtain facts regarding the documentation needed for future extension applications, i.e., Bank Annual Summary Report, Social Security Letter of Confirmation, etc., as well as the process for obtaining these documents because clarification was not being provided by Immigration. We were working in a dark cloud speculating and making assumptions based on a myriad of information (some factual - some false) and I don't see any of this as being a waste of time.

Frankly, it will be the people who decided it best not to get involved in these discussions, speculation, or research, who will be stumbling into Immigration to apply for their extensions without the foggiest clue what's going on. This is what pisses immigration staff off the most, which inevitably creates problems for everyone including those who are following policy. What they hate the most is having to repeatedly answer the same stupid questions, and they don't change the way they operate based on gripes and/or complaints coming from ignorant foreigners. They change the way they operate when their boss tells them to change.

Please don't tell NASA that speculating is a bad thing - because we would never had made it to the moon!

As a side note:

Different immigration offices, and different staff members within the same office, commonly interpret polices differently. The reason for this is a significant deficiency in management responsibility from top management in the government down to the local branches. It's management's responsibility to understand the policies, communicate the polices clearly, and ensure that their people are trained effectively to administer the polices. This problem is systemic and not isolated to any one branch or district and has nothing to do with "farang input".

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by fountainhall » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:02 am

ceejay wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:03 pm
Immigration and the visa agents also now realised there was money to be made out of this.
And the rest is history.
No-one should discuss what they might do. If the idea takes hold, and people too stupid to tie their own bootlaces start asking Immigration and the agents about it, It might just happen.
With all respect I cannot see individual Immigration agents taking hints from a small handful of retired ranters on a farang message board. That said, I admit I do not now read Thai Visa. I gave up on that bunch of w---ers some years ago when I got tired of all the garbage that was appearing there on a couple of subjects in which I had a particular interest. No doubt there are gold nuggets hidden somewhere, but I believe they are rare.

At Immigration in Bangkok where I renew my visa, I find it impossible to believe a lowly agent would approach a supervisor and say, "Hey Boss, I've got a great idea to tighten up the regulations for retirees." It is just not in Thai culture to do that. The rules come down from above not from below.

I accept I have no experience of other Immigration offices. Perhaps questions from visa applicants might give a bad apple or two an idea of a way to get a brown envelope. But generally, to consider that the speculations on farang-oriented gay chat rooms like this one with relatively tiny readerships will affect policy in any way whatsoever, stretches the boundaries way too far. Further, what has been discussed and speculated here has, in large part, been aired to a vastly wider public in the boring letters columns of the the Bangkok Post and the soon to disappear The Nation.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Gaybutton » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:19 am

Dodger wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:32 am
It's management's responsibility to understand the policies, communicate the polices clearly, and ensure that their people are trained effectively to administer the polices.
I certainly agree. I wish they would put in writing exactly what the requirements are and have it on paper where it could be picked up at any immigration office or police station, published in the English language newspapers, and also on the internet.

The way it works right now, they apparently expect people to somehow just know what the requirements are and what documentation is required to meet those requirements.

Immigration must be well aware of all the confusion. It's a mystery to me why they don't take steps to clarify the rules and publicize the information.

I, for one, want to go back to the 65,000 baht per month method for my next retirement visa extension. I have better things to do with 800,000 baht than to just have it sitting there untouched in a Thai bank account. But I'm afraid to do it. Too many 'what ifs' and uncertainty to suit me when I can't be sure they would accept the documentation I provide. If they don't accept the documentation and I've removed the 800,000 baht, I could lose my eligibility for the visa. That's a risk I'm not willing to take.

I'm actually seriously considering buying the Elite card for 1,000,000 baht and using it to get the 20 year visa.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by fountainhall » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:44 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:19 am
I'm actually seriously considering buying the Elite card for 1,000,000 baht and using it to get the 20 year visa.
I have been thinking of the Thailand Elite card for some months. But I would opt for the 5 year visa for Bt. 500,000 first. Fortunately I have another half year before I have to make a decision. I know some consider this money down the drain. But having to set aside Bt. 800,000 basically for the rest of my life is a lousy deal since I will get no benefit from it and I can't take it with me! Also, no need to haul myself out to Chaengwattana for 90-day reportings and annual renewals, and since I travel quite a bit, a nice bit of coddling at and free transport to and from BKK and DMK.

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Re: Retirement extension

Post by Dodger » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:58 am

Dodger wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:32 am
It's management's responsibility to understand the policies, communicate the polices clearly, and ensure that their people are trained effectively to administer the polices.
Gaybutton wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:19 am
I, for one, want to go back to the 65,000 baht per month method for my next retirement visa extension. I have better things to do with 800,000 baht than to just have it sitting there untouched in a Thai bank account. But I'm afraid to do it. Too many 'what ifs' and uncertainty to suit me when I can't be sure they would accept the documentation I provide. If they don't accept the documentation and I've removed the 800,000 baht, I could lose my eligibility for the visa. That's a risk I'm not willing to take.
The only way to mitigate ALL risk would be to leave 800k in the bank the first time you apply using the 65k/month method and use it as a backup in the event there was a problem.

Personally, I plan to present the Annual Bank Deposit Report, Bank Pass Book, and U.S. Social Security Income Statement when I apply for the extension using the 65k/month method and don't expect any problems. In the event there was a problem, I could always fall back on the 800k method.

I've reviewed the Elite Packages and don't want any part of them.

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