Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

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Jun
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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by Jun »

Is there any reason why a Line group would be better than forums like this ?
I can't think of a single one.

Any information posted here is also easily searchable for use later. There is some kind of structure, so threads are kept on topic.

I can think of reasons why a Line group would be worse.
My Line ID is shared with friends I have met in Thailand and moneyboys. I'm not sharing that same ID with a load of random people who I haven't met. The only board members who get my Line ID are the ones I have met and possibly certain members who have been posting for some time, if the need arises.

The same applies to Facebook, except that's even worse.
With old style forums like this, we can keep our forum ID completely separate from our normal ID. The moment you follow someone on the plague that is Facebook, everyone can see it. Also, the structure and software is a disaster.

As for the idea of live updates to a random group on Line, that's also a non-starter for me. Since the internet is infested with wierdos, when I do post about activities, I make sure it's after the event. You won't even see me post about which hotel I'm in until I've left it. Quite a few other contributors to these forums have similar policies.

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by Gaybutton »

Jun wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:27 am
Is there any reason why a Line group would be better than forums like this ?
I can't think of a single one.
I too fail to see what purpose would be served, but I have no objection if someone wants to set up something like that. All I ask is keep me and my name out of it. I would want no part of it.

Controlling trolls and abusers could be a problem. Believe me, there are plenty of them out there. I wouldn't be surprised if one of your first customers would be Bad Boy Billy - and then you could watch it go downhill from there . . .

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by bi-top »

Jun wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:27 am
Is there any reason why a Line group would be better than forums like this ?
I can't think of a single one.

...

As for the idea of live updates to a random group on Line, that's also a non-starter for me. Since the internet is infested with wierdos, when I do post about activities, I make sure it's after the event. You won't even see me post about which hotel I'm in until I've left it. Quite a few other contributors to these forums have similar policies.
And there, my friends, is the answer to all my questions. The straight world and the gay world are not on the same plane. And I don't mean that in any derogatory way -- just a plain observation. Unfortunately with this mindset, nothing will change. The fear of the lurking weirdos is substantially greater than the positives that could be offered -- as if we don't have trolls and weirdos on forums en masse. If these opinions are shared by the majority, I understand now what is happening.

A line group is not a forum -- and a forum is not a line group. It is not about threads; and looking up information and tips LATER. It is about real time meeting and sharing CURRENT activities, events, party data, meet-up requests, bar updates -- IN REAL TIME. It is about bars posting pictures of their events, showing their latest boy additions, and allowing communication between bar representatives and customers. As one person said privately ... "they [forums] are not good for real live spontaneous activities that a gay LINE Group would/could offer".

Thank you to everyone that did post and share their opinions. It was very enlightening.

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by Gaybutton »

bi-top wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:00 am
IN REAL TIME.
These boards are used by people from all over the world. In real time? I don't see how that could work given the time differences.

There is only 1 way to know for sure whether your idea would work. Set it up and see.

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by Jun »

bi-top wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:00 am
Unfortunately with this mindset, nothing will change. The fear of the lurking weirdos is substantially greater than the positives that could be offered
Let's approach it from the other direction. What possible benefit could I get from posting real time details of my movements on line, for random unknown people to read ? I can't think of one.

That's why the vast majority of people, gay and straight simply don't do it. There is no need for any of them to change their mindset.

If I want to meet more people, I can simply start talking to the ones I see in bars, coffee shops etc.

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by bi-top »

Jun wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:59 pm

Let's approach it from the other direction. What possible benefit could I get from posting real time details of my movements on line, for random unknown people to read ? I can't think of one.

That's why the vast majority of people, gay and straight simply don't do it. There is no need for any of them to change their mindset.
I'll reply, but I am NOT trying to argue with you. I'm not here to argue a position - only state what I have seen and question why it isn't being applied. In other words, give my OPINION. This has been a learning experience for me and I have found the replies to be quite interesting. My replies are long, so most of you will get bored. Maybe I'll create a "TL; DR" section.

1. "What possible benefit could I get from posting real time details of my movements on line"
NO ONE said you were required to. NO ONE said you ever needed to post. NO ONE said you couldn't lurk on the group. Why lurk? If a gay line group worked like the straight group, the bars would get involved and post specials and a photograph or two of their workers and especially, new workers. I have really enjoyed seeing pictures of workers that I am interesting in - as I will generally visit that bar like a man on a mission.

Line groups are TYPICALLY intended for "guys on the ground" who are looking for what activities are going on, and for meeting up with other guys ALSO looking for what is going on. They are looking for a "wingman" as well (see next paragraph). Although expats are welcomed on the group (as we often have knowledge, tips and suggestions we can share **IF WE CHOOSE TO**, the intent was to reach NEW visitors/tourists - and possibly guys who are want to learn about Pattaya's gay side but won't do it alone. [Yes, you can find some of the activity by getting on Facebook and following each bar individually because we all know how much they update their FB pics and events!]

The straight line groups also feature bar crawls - something I personally have never seen or heard of in the gay community. Why are bar crawls interesting/fun/worthwhile? A handfull of guys, laughing and enjoying the activity of dropping in to see different bars -- many they may or may not go in (most are tourists, remember?). Maybe they go around boyztown; then whats left of Sunnee; then Jomtien Complex.

Being a single visitor, new to the city, and walking into JC can be overwhelming IMO. Where to sit; grab someone? or sit and watch? Will I get attacked for drinks? ETC., etc. Being in a group (bar crawl) or having a wingman (using the app to find a travel friend) can make it more fun and may bring more customers into the fold. More customers = more boys. Rinse and Repeat.


2. "That's why the vast majority of people, gay and straight simply don't do it."
I can't argue with this AT ALL. The "vast majority" are not doing it. In the straight group, 300-500 guys are in the chat each month. Out of potentially millions, right?

But the same argument is valid HERE -- on THIS FORUM. How many registered members post regularly? 10? 20? The board lists 102 members. Also out of the same "millions" of travelers to Thailand as I mentioned previously. The straight forums might have 100 daily posters out of thousands of registered users. But it is still not the vast majority.

IMAGE WON'T POST
https://ibb.co/xsrQhcs
This is the straight group. I haven't accessed it in four days, which is why there is 999+ messages to read. Will I read them all? NO WAY. But I usually check each day but have been busy. It also shows that 405 guys are in this group.

What type of expat are you? Do you find it interesting to interact with new (traveler or expat) visitors? Or do you think the new people are destroying your playground?

I started attenting a Saturday get together of American and Canadian expats 17 years ago at a Hotel/daytime bar that doesn't exist any more. Most of us were active on forums, and actively encouraged visitors to join us for lunch and conversation. We had 20-40 people every weekend. There was no money involved - just buy a water or a drink or food.

We still meet in 2022, in a different restaurant. Now there are 6-12 of us each week. And the point I am making is that the EXPATS still participating ARE NOT INTERESTED in pursuing newbies, or visitors or whatever word you want to use. In other words, it is dying a slow death, because many of them have become stuck in their expat ways - they aren't going out much and aren't interested in the discussions newbies and travelers have about where are the hottest girls. [Caveat: I am an expat, but I want to think I am not so close minded].


And finally (yeah, I talked too much), Gaybutton suggested "just do it" (Nike will get him later). But it would take a group of people to do it - that have the common interest; know 10 guys who they could share it with as well as getting support from a few bar owners.

If you read this far, you were bored tonight. Kidding. To me it has been interesting to read the replies as I am new here. Either way, thank you for reading about my opinion ...

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by RichLB »

I have a couple thoughts about this thread. Since it's deviated from the original question to now Line Groups (whatever they are) let me randomly react.
As to why Gay Mongers are so Old, I'm not so sure gay visitors to Thailand are particularly old. It's likely that younger gays do not find it appealing to go to a bar, sit on a bench, and merely ogle the boys on offer. Such a passive model seems designed for the elderly and inactive. Younger guys want something more spirited. I haven't been to any of the discos around town, but I'm guessing the demographics there are considerably younger than found in the "come in and sit" bars. I also have not been to any of the "parties" featured in news stories, but from the posted pictures the crowd seems to be from teens to mid thirties. It's true, these events are not "gay", but the distinction between gays and straights is somewhat anachronistic these days - it just isn't as important as it used to be.

Now, as to these Line Groups...I get the feeling they are much like the groups of Chinese tourists we used to see parading around following a yellow umbrella held aloft by some guide. I'm not real clear what purpose they would serve. If they are used to find like minded friends a better solution might be to join one (or both) of the Pattaya City Expat groups. I admit I never found the weekly meetings very friendly, but the special interest groups were always welcoming of strangers and, truthfully, mostly composed of fellow gays.

And, finally, I remember when i first came to Thailand and explored the gay bars, I was shocked three weren't any "cruise bars" that seem typical in the rest of the world. These bars were packed with all ages and types. Customers came to socialize, cruise, and pick up an evenings partner. I wonder is some variation of that model would work here in Pattaya.

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by BKKDreamer »

Hello bi-top,

I like what you wrote - as you have struck a chord with me personally as to what is missing here in Pattaya as a new retiree.
The process to insert yourself into the existing gay expat retiree ecosystem is very challenging - as the static connections seem to be solidified and challenging to break into as a newbie.

What you wrote above:

"Line groups are TYPICALLY intended for "guys on the ground" who are looking for what activities are going on, and for meeting up with other guys ALSO looking for what is going on."

in my mind would be an excellent way to overcome the above mentioned challenge - as the LINE option would be more fluid and less solidified and static. It sounds like it could be a mix of visitors + already living here expats - which I think would be great.

In the mid 1980s, I was president of the largest gay group in Brooklyn (New York City) - it's acronym was GFN - Gay Friends and Neighbors and some of us also referred to it as Go Fuck your Neighbor.
One of our BIGGEST challenges was to keep the group vibrant and growing. So, we had to find a way to mix in new blood with the existing membership. Obviously, in the 1980s we did not have the wonderful technologies of social media and LINE to broadcast to the potential newbies of our existence. So, we formed and OUTREACH sub-group within our main GFN group whose job was to create awareness and friendly events to allow new members to 1.) be aware of our existence, 2.) create specific events for these new members to attend as a way for them be be able to break into our existing club where the already existing relationships and friendships were already solidified, 3.) ask for volunteers from the existing GFN membership to followup with the new members by inviting them to various events during the month so that we would not lose them and to take care of their indoctrination and assimilation into the greater GFN membership.

In my mind, this is what is missing here in Pattaya. Yes, we have the 2 expat groups (PEC and PCEC) - but I did not find them to be with much enthusiasm for us gays - but to be fair - I need to give them more time as the assimilation process is very slow. In the PEC group some of them invited me to go bar crawling in soi buakhao at the girlie bars but I found an excuse to not participate as I was very intimidated by the idea of girl bar mamasans pushing me to take home the ladies - which is not my cup-of-tea. However, as bi-top mentions in this thread, this would be very exciting if we had the gay equivalent here in Pattaya.

bi-top asks the following questions - that I would like to give my feedback to:

What type of expat are you?
A newly retired expat where I want to create a fulfilling life here in my new home Pattaya / Jomtien.
I use the word fulfilling as I intend to mean - MORE than just going to the gogo bars and massage parlors and the Jomtien Complex Supertown.
I would like that to include:
going to the movies and then afterwards critiquing what we have just seen,
going on trips to explore the greater Chon Buri area and also other parts of Thailand,
perhaps doing ad-hoc fun stuff like bowling, volleyball on the beach, discussion / debate groups, exploring new restaurants, etc.

Do you find it interesting to interact with new (traveler or expat) visitors?
Yes, very much so. Why? I hope that by meeting visitors that come here that I can influence them that Pattaya / Jomtien is a great place to retire to for when these travelers would eventually reach their retirement age. We need to rejuvenate our expat gay city or it will die off like the dinosaurs and I believe that I still have 20 more years to go before I meet the grim reaper - so, I don't want to be the last man standing in gay Pattaya / Jomtien. Plus, new blood is good to have - as I believe that it forces us to have an open mind and to challenge our static fixed ways - as my BIGGEST fear is that I too will also become a solidified person within our local expat gay community.
So, I see this LINE idea as an excellent way to fulfill this objective - to keep us growing full of new blood.

Or do you think the new people are destroying your playground?
No, I do not think this. As I mention above, I believe that new people will help our community to grow and flourish and to keep our bars and massage parlors open ad infinitum.

Lastly, this is a suggestion to bi-top to think of another strategy to fulfilling the goal to add a live social media way, like LINE to our community.
I would suggest to reach out to the webmaster of the GaySupertown site.

https://www.gaysupertown.com/

When you open the above website - you will see across the top of the screen (right center) the following categories:

Home
Gay Bars
Lodging
Dining
Massage
Beaches
Blog
Facebook
Twitter
Youtube

Bi-top - perhaps you could ask the web curator to add an additional category for LINE.

Currently I get the Twitter feeds and I find them helpful to know what is going on in Supertown in any given week.
But all of their information in ONE-WAY - where they PUSH information to us and there is no capability for TWO-WAY interaction.
LINE would allow for this and could make the Supertown site more dynamic and fulfill many of the goals that you mentioned in this thread.

The only negative that I see is that this website is Jomtien specific and excludes Pattaya (BoyzTown and Sunee) - so, it might not meet your goal. However, the infrastructure for Supertown is quite vast and could be a good launching point for this LINE initiative. Unfortunately, it seems that both BoyzTown and Sunee don't see to have an internet presence that represents their respective interests - as it seems that in these 2 locations that it is more about every man for himself - whereas, this Supertown initiative is for the greater collective of the 30 gay bars, 10 massage parlors, 4 entertainment venues, restaurants, and hotels.

Bi-top - please send me a DM (direct message) and I can give you the contact details for the Supertown website. Please note that I tried to get them to implement another initiative of mine, "Gay retirement in Pattaya", but it fell on deaf ears. I wanted them to add an additional category to the above mentioned list where there would be a category for all stuff about retiring in Pattaya / Jomtien with a specific emphasis on gay issues for our gay expat community. There is already a wealth of "Retiring in Thailand" websites - but none of them have a gay emphasis on our little gay community. I even volunteered to keep after this section of the web page - but again it fell on deaf ears - perhaps as it is not specific to the business model of the Supertown Jomtien Complex - but I would argue that it could be as it would be a way to market it to potential future expat gay retirees who are shopping around for a place to retire.

thoughts ?

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by whitedesire »

One of the main reasons why younger straight guys go to Thailand is that it's on a plate for them (and remember younger guys' testosterone levels are high and they want it "now") and the girls come flocking after them, they don't get that on the straight scene in the West unless you are exceptionally good looking. Average looking guys don't get it on a plate in the West. Younger gay guys are not interested in Asians (generally, not all, and I am generalising), they go for Ibiza, Paris, the States, Spain etc. The older gays - well its "time's up" in the Western countries for them and they get nothing, that's why they go East.

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Re: Why are Gay Mongers So Old?

Post by Gaybutton »

whitedesire wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:11 am
The older gays - well its "time's up" in the Western countries for them and they get nothing, that's why they go East.
Speaking only for myself, I have always been attracted to Asians far more than any western boys. I doubt I'm alone in that. My age had nothing to do with why I went East.

For me the more important question is not whether I used to be attracted to western boys, Asian boys, or whatever. To me the question is, who are the Asians attracted to?

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