PromptPay

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Jun
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Re: PromptPay

Post by Jun »

2lz2p wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:48 pm
I have been told by several folks over the past few years that they will put all kinds of stumbling blocks in your way. The reason apparently is they want you to use an agent - a couple of times it was reported that they were even told to use a specific nearby agent and in one case the person told me they were told outright that for a certain fee they could get expedited service for both the Visa and subsequent extension.
This is no surprise at all.
The immigration office is often overcrowded, so it's hardly a place for discreetly discussing extra payments to grease the wheels. Once the customer interaction is moved out to agencies, that problem is solved.

For the avoidance of doubt, my visits to a couple of agencies were merely to explore the options for extending my stay in Thailand for a few weeks, when I wasn't eligible for covid extensions or anything like that. If I am eligible for something, I'm inclined to deal with it directly.

I also get the impression that Jomtien immigration try not to make things easy. For a simple 30 day extension:

Jomtien: Get passport photos. Queue. Collect the forms. Go away, fill them in and make copies of them. Go to the side office & queue to get confirmation of accommodation. Queue to finalise the process in the main office, have your photo taken again etc.

Hua Hin Blueport: Fill in one form and hand over passport. Collect queue ticket. When number is up, go inside, answer a few questions, have your photo taken and pay the fees. Best of all, there is a coffee shop that's in sight of their queue display, so you can go and have a coffee whilst waiting.

The process in Hua Hin was far more straightforward.
Neither is optimum, as almost all of it could be handled online, with no offices needed.

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Gaybutton
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Re: PromptPay

Post by Gaybutton »

2lz2p wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:48 pm
many may not be aware, that the Immigration rules for applying for the Non-Immigrant Visa requires 800k baht be in a Thai bank with proof it came from outside of Thailand [although the monthly income method (65k baht per month) is acceptable for extending the stay after you get the Non-O Visa, it is not for getting the Non-O Visa itself].
I'm among those who were not aware. I didn't know in order to get the initial O retirement visa you have to start with 800000 in a Thai bank account. It is ancient history now, but when I did my first time retirement visa, I did it with the proof-of-income statement from the embassy. Unfortunately, those days are long gone now.

Well, good luck. Many people going into retirement don't even have 800000 baht, let alone be able to afford letting it sit in a Thai bank account untouched for a significant length of time. If 2lz2p is correct, then I don't see any way around it other than using one of these services. Even with the drawbacks that may come with it, in my opinion using a visa service still beats hell out of getting an O-A retirement visa.

2lz2p wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:48 pm
his bank book will not show he kept the 800k on deposit for 3 months after getting his extension, kept a balance of at least 400k then increased it to 800k at least 2 months before he applies again for an extension.
I don't understand. Wouldn't his updated passbook show exactly that? He put the 800000 into the account on a certain date and then never touched any of it. Why would that be a problem? What am I missing?

Folks, we are getting WAY off topic now, but that's ok this time since it is all related. Just a reminder, though, this topic is supposed to be about PromptPay.

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Re: PromptPay

Post by Jun »

Gaybutton wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:30 pm
Just a reminder, though, this topic is supposed to be about PromptPay.
I'm guessing these agencies don't accept PromptPay for any service which involves payments to grease the wheels at immigration or elsewhere.

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Re: PromptPay

Post by 2lz2p »

Gaybutton wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:30 pm
I don't understand. Wouldn't his updated passbook show exactly that? He put the 800000 into the account on a certain date and then never touched any of it. Why would that be a problem? What am I missing?

Folks, we are getting WAY off topic now, but that's ok this time since it is all related. Just a reminder, though, this topic is supposed to be about PromptPay.
I agree it has got away from main topic, but allow me to answer your question - He told me his passbook shows the money going into and out of his account on the same day - thus the funds didn't remain in the account, which would be expected when using an agent as the agent wouldn't want to tie up their funds. As to it being a "book entry" only by bank staff, he is probably right. Many many years ago when I was working as an auditor for one of the Big 8 Accounting firms in the USA, I participated in the audit of a couple of our bank clients. A staff person can book an entry showing cash in and out on the same day without it upsetting the end of day balances, so no need for actual cash to be involved.

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Re: PromptPay

Post by Gaybutton »

2lz2p wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:54 am
his passbook shows the money going into and out of his account on the same day
Thank you. Now I understand. It certainly is not getting any easier - or less expensive - to get the O retirement visa these days, and as time goes on unless Thailand takes steps to make the process easier, I anticipate it getting more, not less, difficult to open Thai bank accounts, obtain retirement visas, and who knows what else.

I guess I'm among the lucky ones, when there was no difficulty at all. As I said, in order to obtain my original O visa, back in those days all I had to do was show the proof-of-income statement from the embassy and show that I had a Thai bank account. And in those days getting a Thai bank account was no problem at all. When I got it, I was in Thailand on the 30 day privilege - no paid visa at all. I simply walked into the nearest bank, showed my passport, and 20 minutes later I had the account. No muss, no fuss. And I was doubly lucky because that bank happened to be a branch of Bangkok Bank, one of the two banks Wise will transfer money to. The other is Kasikorn Bank (aka K-Bank) - I have an account there too.

I will never forget the first time I went to the USA embassy to get the proof-of-income statement. In those days you had to go to the embassy - this was long before they started their Outreach program. I walked in with a stack of paperwork to prove my income. The clerk said "You don't need any of that. You swear on the affidavit that you're telling the truth."

I said "You mean you simply take my word for it?"

"That's right"

"You mean I could swear that my income is greater than Bill Gates gets and you accept my word for it?"

"That's right."

Times have sure changed. In my case I really was telling the truth about my monthly income, but I know some farang who also got their retirement visa that way and they did lie about their income. That is why Thailand no longer takes proof-of-income statements unless you actually proved your income to the embassy. And the embassies stopped issuing the statements because it is too much trouble for them to verify your income.

That sort of thing has been common in Thailand. A few cheat the system, so to prevent it now everyone ends up essentially punished. That also explains some of Thailand's insurance requirements. Some people were living in Thailand with no medical insurance at all and stuck the hospital with their bill - which they also never paid out of pocket. It also explains the "visa run" restrictions. Some were living in Thailand without a proper retirement visa. They would just make visa runs whenever it was necessary and were able to stay year round that way. Now I believe the max anyone can stay via visa runs is 180 days.

So, that's where things are today.

By the way, once you have the retirement visa, you can walk into any Thai bank and open an account - as many different banks as you want. All you need is your passport showing your retirement visa and 500 baht minimum to open an account.

Ok - for once I'm going to just let this topic continue as is without me being a spoilsport and intervening.

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Re: PromptPay

Post by bkkguy »

Gaybutton wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:28 am
I walked in with a stack of paperwork to prove my income. The clerk said "You don't need any of that. You swear on the affidavit that you're telling the truth."
Under Australian law, providing false information in a statutory declaration is a federal criminal offence with a possible jail term of up to 5 years, but it is the role of the federal police to investigate claims, the only role of the person witnessing the stat dec is to establish the identity of the person making the declaration. As I understand it the law in the USA is similar - it is perjury to make a false statement in an affidavit but it is not up to the person witnessing the affidavit to verify the information. I am not sure bit I think the situation in the UK and some European countries is also similar, but someone may be able to supply more information on that

I have always assumed the Immigration Police initially thought you were less likely to provide false information under the laws of your home country then under Thai law, but once it became obvious that that was not working they started demanding the local embassies verify the information
Gaybutton wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:28 am
And the embassies stopped issuing the statements because it is too much trouble for them to verify your income.
again under Australian law it is definitely not the role of the embassy staff to verify statements made in a stat dec and again as I understand it the law in the USA is similar, so perhaps "too much trouble" is a bit unfair, it is after all really the responsibility of the Thai Immigration Police to verify the information they are given!
I can’t even be bothered to be apathetic these days!

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Re: PromptPay

Post by Gaybutton »

bkkguy wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:37 pm
but once it became obvious that that was not working they started demanding the local embassies verify the information
What makes you so sure that it wasn't working? A few people may have lied, but I see no reason to doubt that the vast majority were completely truthful.

Once again, I don't like when everyone, including those in compliance and truthful, ends up essentially punished because of the actions of a few.

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Re: PromptPay

Post by bkkguy »

Gaybutton wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:01 pm
What makes you so sure that it wasn't working? A few people may have lied, but I see no reason to doubt that the vast majority were completely truthful.
I am not "so sure", but anecdotal evidence suggested that with no verification by the embassies it was perceived by many as easy to rort the system, and based on past actions Immigration doesn't usually change procedures if they suspect only a trivial number of rorters, and cynically their usual response is usually not just to try to stop the rorts but to force more people to use agents instead, which I think they succeeded with on this one, even if it wasn't deliberate

Gaybutton wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:01 pm
Once again, I don't like when everyone, including those in compliance and truthful, ends up essentially punished because of the actions of a few.
I am certainly with you on that one! for years KBANK used to issue bank balance letters on the spot at your local branch then one year that suddenly changed to all requests had to be sent to head office and the letter picked up the next day, presumably because too many corrupt local staff issued fake letters for agents. they have now gone back top issuing at the local branch so maybe enough agents switched to other banks instead?
I can’t even be bothered to be apathetic these days!

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Re: PromptPay

Post by Gaybutton »

bkkguy wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:12 pm
easy to rort the system
If nothing else, thanks for the new word. Rort. It's new to me, anyway. Then again, I've never been to Australia.

Excuse me, but I just came to. I can see from the clock that I passed out for about 10 minutes due to the shock. I thought I would never live to see the day. You agreed with me about something. A once in a lifetime moment . . .

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