AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by Gaybutton »

Jun wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:17 pm
Finally, for those who like a conspiracy, there is very limited scope for western governments to lie about the data. For a start, there are other governments publishing data, so any fraud will eventually be exposed by comparison.
All you have to do is figure out which governments are telling the truth and which are lying. You know which governments I think are lying? All of them.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by Jun »

Gaybutton wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:55 pm
All you have to do is figure out which governments are telling the truth and which are lying. You know which governments I think are lying? All of them.
When it comes to covid statistics, all the western governments can get away with is nuancing the truth, making favourable interpretations and omitting information. All of which happen.
However, they cannot and will not get away with material fraud regarding vaccine performance data. There is too much independent reporting for that.
So if a vaccine is claimed to be over 90% effective in preventing severe illness, that's going to be in the right ballpark. They can't just turn 20% into 90%, with all the independent checks, balances, leaks, reports from other countries and so on.

In the UK, covid has only made it into the top 10 causes of death once in the last 3 months. Bear in mind, even that includes all the morons who chose not to get the vaccine.
[Data published by ONS, who are not controlled by the government]

The best I can estimate at present is any board member who has had covid vaccines is most likely to die of something other than covid. That's with normal behaviour. If they take additional precautions like wearing an FFP3/N99 mask for the duration of the current wave, that tilts the odds even further.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by Jun »

Incidentally, when posing the question "Why is XX% the target for vaccinations in Pattaya?", please note that any credible answer to explain the XX% must use data. There is no other way of getting to XX%.

So to accept an answer, an ability to believe some of the data is a prerequisite. Without an acceptance of some data, no answer will ever be good enough, so nothing is gained from the question.

Since much of the data is compiled independently of governments and in some cases, there is separate data compiled in many different countries, I have no difficulty in believing much of it is in the right ballpark.
However, I don't believe all data is precisely correct. A fine example of something I doubt would be the Sinovac efficacy from trials in Brazil, which came in at 50.2%, conveniently just over the WHO threshold of 50%. I'd regard that as highly suspicious.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by Gaybutton »

Jun wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:57 pm
to accept an answer, an ability to believe some of the data is a prerequisite. Without an acceptance of some data, no answer will ever be good enough, so nothing is gained from the question.
I agree with what you say, but speaking only for myself I see it differently. For all I know, the data is accurate, but even if it is, that is not what I'm looking for. What the data says will happen or won't happen or what will work and what won't work doesn't mean much to me. It means even less to me when any of the data comes from a government.

The only thing that means anything to me is what actually does happen. If what does happen works out the way the data says it will, that's great.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by whitedesire »

Statistics statistics statistics that's all I hear and how good they are and yes the rule is anything with a 50% efficacy rating goes on the market, but that still doesn't alter the fact that the death rate is still high and double jabbed people are catching it. To put it in perspective, I never heard or very rarely heard of people who were vaccinated against measles rubella shingles flu need I go on of catching it. There's too many incidences of double jabbed covid cases out there and as for the Chinese version of the jab, we'll.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by Jun »

whitedesire wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:07 pm
To put it in perspective, I never heard or very rarely heard of people who were vaccinated against measles rubella shingles flu need I go on of catching it.
Look more closely.
Flu vaccines in no way prevent people from catching flu & seem to be less effective than the covid vaccines. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/e ... tudies.htm
I've seen people posting information about flu vaccines here in past years, without ever questioning the efficacy. Flu vaccines merely improve your chances. So why judge covid vaccines by different standards ?

Or looking at it from the other direction, have you taken advantage of the vaccines which have an over 90% reduction in death rates ? Or are you turning that useful improvement down ? The vaccines probably push covid out of our top 10 most likely causes of death.

Our odds of dying in the next 12 months are barely changed by covid & we're all most likely to die from something else.

If there were some vaccine which caused a 90% reduction in your odds of dying from any of the other far more common causes of death, I suspect you, I and most other board members would take that as well.

I also suspect many of the other medications taken by members have efficacy far below 100%.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by whitedesire »

Jun, I don't think you understand my point, the point I was making is that statistics can do our head in and you have to look on the ground to see what's happening and yes I would rather be jabbed and take the medication rather than not, statistics tell us that I know.

You know I was listening to LBC a few weeks ago and the statistics looked very encouraging, they were coming down, only to interview a Doctor who was actually working right in the heart of it, and he said, that is not what he was seeing on the ground.

I'm also only well aware that medicines don't always work and their efficacy rates and to put it into perspective and a different subject I know the HIV medication people take, I haven't heard of any bad reactions to it or that it doesn't work etc etc, and I suspect the efficacy rates of that medication are not 100% either.

With regard to Covid, it's early days, all these stats putting positive outcomes on it and yet it still is killing people and giving them long Covid.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by Jun »

whitedesire wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:38 am
Jun, I don't think you understand my point, the point I was making is that statistics can do our head in and you have to look on the ground to see what's happening
If I did look on the ground, I'd report I know of 2 people who died of covid, so too small a sample size to learn much. .

One was in his 80s, in hospital dying anyway. Obviously in one of our shitty & unaccountable NHS hospitals, he caught covid in hospital and counts as one of the UK's covid deaths.
The other was 94.


Looking on the ground in Thailand, do you know anyone who has died from covid ?

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by gerefan »

Jun wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:49 am
I know of 2 people who died of covid.

One was in his 80s, in hospital dying anyway. Obviously in one of our shitty & unaccountable NHS hospitals, he caught covid in hospital and counts as one of the UK's covid deaths.
The other was 94.
Were both of these people double jabbed?

Clearly the first one should not have been a covid statistic...even more so if he had been inoculated.

Was the second chap jabbed? Did he have other medical conditions?

Hard to know if they were genuine covid deaths, the way things are judged here.

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Re: AstraZeneca VS Pfizer Efficacy Against Covid Variants

Post by whitedesire »

On the ground here in the UK at the moment, I'm hearing stories everyday.

With regard to Thailand - ain't got a clue, only what I read.

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