The latest Covid restrictions

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Jun
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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Jun »

Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:46 pm
Long-distance buses and vans must stop every 2-3 hours and ventilate their cabins.
Another useless measure. If there's someone breathing out covid viruses, it will take much less than 2 hours to catch it.

I also wish I knew of long distance bus services that, in normal times, drive from A to B without stopping at intervals of less than 3 hours. Most keep stopping far more frequently. The only exception I can remember was the Bell Travel bus which managed to go from Hua Hin to Pattaya without a stop.

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Gaybutton »

Jun wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:21 pm
Another useless measure. If there's someone breathing out covid viruses, it will take much less than 2 hours to catch it.
Just for the sake of argument, suppose every passenger and the driver can all prove they've been fully vaccinated. Why, then, would the bus need to stop and ventilate?

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Jun »

Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:30 pm
Just for the sake of argument
Don't encourage me !
Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:30 pm
suppose every passenger and the driver can all prove they've been fully vaccinated. Why, then, would the bus need to stop and ventilate?
I think we've already established that the Western vaccines reduce your odds of getting severe covid by over 90%, but make no claim to eliminate the risk.
Also, the vaccines merely reduce transmission, not eliminate it. So whilst Thailand has a large unvaccinated population, they probably want to take measures to reduce transmission.

However, this measure is ridiculous. Since it only takes a few minutes to catch covid, stopping and ventilating the bus every 2~3 hours is only likely to be of benefit if the covid carrier gets off the bus and new passengers get on AFTER the ventilation.

If they want to so something to reduce risks on buses, mandating wearing of high spec FFP3/N99 masks would make more sense (ie not any old mask).

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Gaybutton »

Analysis/Opinion: HUGE list of questions about vaccine requirements/rules for proposal of easing Covid-19 restrictions in Thailand’s max control provinces

By Adam Judd

28 August, 2021

The following is our weekly feature in which we take a look at the top developing stories and things to follow over the next week. We are focusing on what is happening for the first week of September, ending September 4th, 2021.

As we publish dozens of stories a week, this allows our readers to get a quick glimpse of the most important stories taking place in Thailand and Pattaya and to monitor and follow for the week ahead, as chosen by our editorial team.

This week, we are going to devote the entire column to this…
Covid-19 restrictions are set to ease from September 1st, especially in maximum control zones, but many questions remain:

The biggest news for next week will be the easing of Covid-19 restrictions in maximum control zones, also known as “dark red”, as deemed and chosen by the Center for Covid-19 Situation Administration, or CCSA, in Bangkok.

It’s important to note that as of today, August 28th, there are still four full days before September 1st and it is possible (and based on the past) very likely some things could change. We have not seen final orders from the Thai government yet in the Royal Gazette around the easing of restrictions and especially answers to questions around a plan in maximum control provinces (like Chonburi and Bangkok) that “high-risk” places will need to require customers to be either

A. Fully vaccinated from Covid-19
B. Recovered from Covid-19 within 90 days
or
C. Take a rapid antigen or RT-PCR test within 72 hours, which would be good for a “7-day” yellow card pass to go to “high-risk” venues.

It’s also important to note that provincial disease control committees will be responsible for enforcing these rules (which many critics feel are unenforceable, especially at smaller restaurants) and we have yet to see any specific orders from the Chonburi Governor around these rules. It could be several days until this happens as well. Also, in terms of what “high-risk” means, this is still unclear. Restaurants were specifically named but what other places and venues will be? Will massage be required for these requirements also? It’s worth noting that many places that will likely be high-risk, like bars and nightclubs, are still not allowed to open at all, even under the proposed strict rules.

So, what are some of the questions? Well, let’s name a few:

A. There are 29 “dark red” zones. Although Bangkok is estimated at 90% of the population with at least one Covid-19 shot, many of the provinces and areas, including Chonburi, have far, far less (Only 33 percent of Chonburi has ONE shot for instance). The number of potential customers who are fully vaccinated is low and many customers would likely be uncomfortable taking a rapid antigen test before having dinner. Would provinces have some leeway on the rules? Additionally, it is worth noting that many of those fully vaccinated are elderly, disabled, bed-ridden, vulnerable, and/or at-risk and not likely to be regular diners or be willing to go out in the current situation anyways.

B. Is it even enforceable? There is already a lot of chatter that restaurants, such as street carts, moo kata, Thai venues, etc may not be checked at all while “foreign-owned” restaurants and franchises, or those venues in malls could be a big potential target for law enforcement in some areas. With current emergency decree-laws what would normally be a minor violation could mean a big payday for law enforcement.

C. Will one dose of a vaccine such as AstraZeneca, which has a long period between doses, be potentially allowed? (This is still unclear, but in the Sandbox project, it is. However, information so far released by the CCSA says “Fully” vaccinated. This would potentially mean months of waiting for many people to simply go eat in a restaurant and a huge loss of revenue to the venues.

D. Will kids be exempt? Or do they have to take a test before eating? If so, many people will skip dinner with the family. Speaking of exemptions, if a customer brings a medical exemption from a doctor/note, will this be accepted?

E. How will a certificate from overseas in terms of being vaccinated be accepted? Will it be accepted? How will staff be trained and know to tell what is real and what could be just a paper someone is waving at them? Will a business be held liable if a customer uses a fake certificate and is caught?

F. Will restaurant owners really say no to long-term regular customers? Is it fair to put enforcement on restaurants? Will we see more discrimination against foreign nationals potentially at Thai venues, even if vaccinated?

G. Will food delivery drivers, repairmen, ice vendors, lime vendors, suppliers, business partners, owners, etc be required to be vaccinated?

H. If a customer chooses to take a rapid-antigen test before eating, does it have to be done in front of a staff member? What happens if they are positive? Does a hospital immediately have to be called or can the customer leave? Who is tracking the test? Since a test is good for a week according to the information given, can a customer just bring a picture of a rapid test they claim they took and said it was done a few days ago?

I. Staff is also required to be fully vaccinated, but can one dose be allowed, especially for AZ and critical staff? They are also, in dark-red zones, according to the information given, supposed to test roughly twice a week. Where is this data being stored? Who is reviewing it? Is this a “trust” based system on the owner? Who does the single owner of, say, a noodle restaurant report to?

J. Who enforces this vaccination policy overall? Will law enforcement be properly trained on identifying vaccine passports and rapid antigen test results? Will customers who might be breaking the rules, either on purpose or by accident, be fined under what some call draconian emergency decree-laws for tens of thousands of baht and brought to jail like with alcohol-related laws previously?

K. If all these strict rules are in place, why is alcohol still banned at restaurants? Why can’t outdoor bars or similar venues adopt the same rules?

These are just some of the questions we have seen on social media, as well as come up from our editorial team. Countries that have successfully implemented vaccine passes or mandates for venues have mostly been those with widely available vaccines and large amounts of the population vaccinated so that people are not “left out”. That is not the case here in Thailand, with roughly 10% of the population fully vaccinated and most of those in Bangkok or “Sandboxes” like Phuket (which is not a dark-red zone and does not have the mandate rules anyways.)

Now, to give credit to the CCSA, they have stressed that this is a pilot program and that it is starting “FROM” September 1st, not on that date. This appears to mean that “high-risk” venues will have the ability to open when they are ready and can address the laundry list of questions above (and more that are likely still to come.) It also appears that there may be a “grace period” through October to get staff vaccinated, allow customers to get vaccinated, and perhaps still allow them to eat out or use other “high-risk” venues…but this is not yet clear.

TPN reporters spoke to several restaurant owners locally yesterday and nearly all plan to “wait” before opening in for dine-in for further clarification, expressing concern about the questions above as well as possible inconsistent enforcement and fines from police around the rules. Several also did not want to disappoint regular customers or turn them away until they are able to get a vaccine, so state until they are more widely available would continue to be take-away and delivery only.

What do you think? We want to hear your thoughts about this pilot program proposal in the comments below! That’s all for this week, we will continue to provide you more information as we get closer to the easing date on September 1st.

https://thepattayanews.com/2021/08/28/a ... provinces/

"We want to hear your thoughts about this pilot program proposal in the comments below!"

So do I. What are YOUR thoughts?

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Gaybutton »

If you like confusion and uncertainty, all you need to do is go to Thailand. Now, after all the fuss about vaccination requirements to dine-in at restaurants, it is being pointed out that the Royal Gazette makes no mention of that. The Royal Gazette is the final word on approval or denial of restrictions.

In other words, maybe proof of full vaccination may not be a requirement after all. I suppose there is only one way to find out. If it turns out that it is not a requirement, I hope the restaurants are aware of that.

Bear in mind, though, that provincial governors can impose stricter rules. At the time of this post I have seen no news about any further restrictions regarding restaurants.

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Undaunted »

Full details re: reopenings in Pattaya:
________________________________

Full details of Pattaya and 29 dark-red provinces businesses reopening on Sept 1

By Pattaya Mail

August 30, 2021

An update on the easing of COVID-19 restrictions in the 29 dark-red zone provinces, effective from Wednesday, 1 September, 2021, until further notice:

Resumption of businesses and services in dark-red zone provinces

The following services and venues are allowed to resume operations.

*Restaurants and eateries, including those inside shopping malls or similar venues, are allowed to resume dine-in services up until 20.00 Hrs. without the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages. Seating for dine-in customers shall be limited at 50% for air-conditioned restaurants and at 75% for the open-air ones.
*Hair and beauty salons.
*Health massage shops and health spa shops are allowed to reopen only for foot massage services.
*Markets can open up until 20.00 Hrs.
*Shopping malls, shopping centres, community malls, or similar establishments can resume normal operations until 20.00 Hrs., with limitations on the following venues and services:
---Aesthetic clinics, medical clinics for beauty services, and cosmetic clinics are allowed to accept customers with an advance appointment.
---Hair and beauty salons are allowed to accept customers with an advance appointment for a one-hour service per customer.
---Health massage shops and health spa shops are allowed to open only for foot massage services with an advance appointment.
---Tutorial schools, cinemas, water parks and amusement parks, swimming pools, fitness centres, and gaming centres, as well as banquet and meeting activities are to remain closed.
---Public parks, sports fields, sports complexes, and outdoor swimming pools can open up until 20.00 Hrs. and organise competitions without audiences.
---Educational institutions of all types.

What remains open?

Hospitals, medical facilities, medical clinics, pharmacies, shops, factories, banking and financial services, ATMs, telecommunication services, postage and parcel services, pet food shops, building materials and construction supplies stores, shops selling miscellaneous necessary items, cooking gas stores, petrol stations, and online delivery services continue to open under strict disease control measures.

Interprovincial Travel

Travel between dark-red zone provinces and other areas can resume although the government asks that unnecessary travel to be avoided.

Public transport is allowed to operate at 75% of the seating capacity and must apply social distancing measures.

Gatherings of people

Public and private organisations as well as people are still prohibited to organise any activities prone to the spread of disease, but the number of attendees has been increased for each zone.

Dark-red zone: No gatherings of more than 25 people (from previously 5 people).

Red zone: No gatherings of more than 50 people (from previously 20 people).

Orange zone: No gatherings of more than 100 people (from previously 50 people).

Curfew & Work from Home

Effective from 1-14 September, 2021, the night-time curfew in the 29 dark-red zone provinces remains in place between 21.00-04.00 Hrs. Meanwhile, government agencies and private companies are asked to have their employees work from home as much as possible over the next two weeks.

Closure of entertainment venues

Entertainment venues of all types are ordered to remain closed until further notice.

Self-protective measures and distancing efforts

As usual, people nationwide are asked to continue abiding by the health and safety measures in place; such as, wearing a face mask at all times while outside of their residence, regularly washing hands with soap and water/cleaning alcohol, and avoiding unnecessary close contact with others.

TAT would like to remind all travellers to continue with D-M-H-T-T-A precautions to prevent the spread of COVID-19: D – Distancing, M – Mask wearing, H – Handwashing, T – Temperature check, T – Testing for COVID-19, and A – alert application.

Thailand’s colour-coding system for COVID-19 control remains in place for the following provinces:

29 Maximum and Strict Controlled Areas or dark-red zone provinces

Central Region: Bangkok and 28 other provinces: Ang Thong, Ayutthaya, Kanchanaburi, Lop Buri, Nakhon Nayok, Nakhon Pathom, Nonthaburi, Pathum Thani, Phetchaburi, Prachuap Khiri Khan, Ratchaburi, Samut Prakan, Samut Sakhon, Samut Songkhram, Saraburi, Sing Buri, and Suphan Buri; Eastern Region: Chachoengsao, Chonburi (Pattaya City), Prachin Buri, and Rayong; Northern Region: Phetchabun and Tak; Northeastern Region: Nakhon Ratchasima, and Southern Region: Narathiwat, Pattani, Songkhla, and Yala.


37 Strict Controlled Areas or red zone provinces

Central Region: Chai Nat; Eastern Region: Chanthaburi, Sa Kaeo, and Trat; Northern Region: Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Kamphaeng Phet, Lampang, Lamphun, Nakhon Sawan, Phichit, Phitsanulok, Sukhothai, Uthai Thani, and Uttaradit; Northeastern Region: Amnat Charoen, Buri Ram, Chaiyaphum, Kalasin, Khon Kaen, Loei, Maha Sarakham, Nong Bua Lam Phu, Nong Khai, Roi Et, Sakon Nakhon, Si Sa Ket, Surin, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, and Yasothon, and Southern Region: Chumphon, Nakhon Si Thammarat, Phatthalung, Ranong, Satun, and Trang.


11 Controlled Areas or orange zone provinces

Northern Region: Mae Hong Son, Nan, Phayao, and Phrae; Northeastern Region: Bueng Kan, Mukdahan, and Nakhon Phanom, and Southern Region: Krabi, Phang Nga, Phuket, and Surat Thani.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... t-1-369807
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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Gaybutton »

Thank you very much, Undaunted.

As I noted in my post just above yours, the Royal Gazette makes no mention of a requirement to show proof of vaccinations to restaurants in order to dine-in. Also, in your post there is no mention of that. I am guessing that such a requirement does not exist. We'll certainly know soon enough.

It should be noted, however, that the provincial governors have the authority to impose more stringent restrictions. So far I have seen no reports that would indicate there will be anything different from the restrictions listed in the post above.

Now let's hope no further restrictions will be imposed and things will start to get better from here.

Here is some more information:
___________________________

No need to be vaccinated to use restaurants: Bangkok governor

By webfact

August 30, 2021

Bangkok's governor Aswin Kwanmuang told the media that obstacles to opening restaurants in the Thai capital more fully had been removed.

He said that from September 1st to 30th it will not be necessary that patrons will have to have been vaccinated to use restaurants.

Staff will also not have to take ATK tests every 7 days.

These obstacles were seen as problematic when they were mooted because only around 10% of the Thai population has been double vaxxed and restaurants complained that ATK testing would eat into their already devastated bottom line, notes ASEAN NOW.

Aswin said that from Wednesday it is back to mask wearing, temperature checking and 2 meter social distancing protocols, reported Channel 7.

These measures are familiar to everyone by now. He said that where 2 meter SD could not be guaranteed then screens and barriers need to be in place.

Schools will also be allowed to open without restrictions from Wednesday with teaching, training and testing for large groups allowed.

It remains to be seen what protocols will be in place in each school and how many will reopen but the suprise decision of the CCSA will be a mostly welcome relief to parents who have had their children at home since Songkran.

Beauty salons, hairdressing shops and health massage can also reopen - the latter being foot massage only.

Restaurants can open to 8 pm, the same as malls and shopping centers.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1229280-no-n ... -governor/
______________________________________________________

Royal Gazette officially announces relaxation of Covid-19 preventive measures, including restaurants reopening in dark-red zone provinces
By

Nop Meechukhun

29 August, 2021

The Royal Gazette late last night, August 28th, officially announced the relaxation of Covid-19 preventive measures including the reopening of restaurant businesses in the 29 dark-red zone provinces, following a previous announcement from the CCSA on Friday, August 27th.

The readjustment of Covid-19 measures in the maximum and strict controlled provinces under the supervision of the Bangkok Communicable Disease Committee and the Provincial Communicable Disease Committee is in order to comply with the conditions and regulations prescribed by the government.

Restaurants and similar places for selling food and beverages can be opened no later than 8:00 PM., with a limited number of customers dining in. Air-conditioned restaurants can open for not more than 50 percent of their capacity. Outdoor restaurants, including local restaurants and food stalls, must limit the dine-in customers to not more than 75 percent of their capacity. This measure shall apply to restaurants located in shopping malls, department stores, community malls, and other similar establishments. Selling and drinking alcoholic beverages are still prohibited during the service.

TPN media notes the Royal Gazette made no direct mention of the previously announced “pilot program” around requiring all staff AND customers to be fully vaccinated against Covid-19, take a negative test within 72 hours, or recovered from Covid-19 within 3 months. However, they did state (see bottom of this article) that all prescribed measures from the Ministry of Public Health around “Universal Prevention” must be followed as directed by local authorities. “Universal Prevention” is the name of the pilot program that contains these rules.

Statements from the Department of Disease Control in Bangkok today seem to suggest this will be the responsibility of the provincial disease committees to roll out and enforce, while also stating that in terms of rapid antigen test kits for regular testing of staff and optional testing of customers that this would be a “request” for cooperation rather than an “order” due to lack of supplies of the kits. It is unclear as of right now if the vaccination requirement will be enforced or is also a request, more information should be released by each province’s governor and communicable disease committee.

Provincial governors will likely release their specific orders over the next several days. They have the ability to strengthen rules, but not to relax them. We will provide a detailed article about the Chonburi Governor’s orders when the order is released.

https://tpnnational.com/2021/08/29/roya ... provinces/

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by richsilver »

The Pattaya Mail article seems to contradict itself. It says: "...swimming pools... are to remain closed." Then immediately below that it says: "...outdoor swimming pools can open up until 20.00 Hrs."

Which is it? Open or closed?

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by Gaybutton »

richsilver wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:28 pm
Which is it? Open or closed?
I didn't notice that, but you're right. Maybe they meant indoor pools have to remain closed, but outdoor pools can open. Of course, the only outdoor pools I know of, at least in Pattaya, are the water parks - which must remain closed. Why am I thinking about "Catch-22"?

Nothing was said that I could find about hotel outdoor pools, though.

As I said in an earlier post, If you like confusion and uncertainty, all you need to do is go to Thailand.

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Re: The latest Covid restrictions

Post by thewayhelooks »

Condominium pools are outdoor pools too. At least the ones near me at Jomtien.

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