Visa With 800,000 Baht

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Dodger
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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:56 pm

windwalker wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:18 pm
For me Transferwise works quite well. I don't know how I could possibly send direct international deposits.
I opened an account with Bangkok Bank last year so I could start getting direct deposits of my monthly social security payments. They use the ACH (IAT) format which GB mentioned so I was OK. If I wanted to make direct international deposits from my U.S. Bank to Bangkok Bank Thailand I could also do this if needed, because my U.S. Bank also uses IAT.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 pm

Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:31 pm
... my retirement income source refuses to use the IAT format for direct deposits, so what choice did I have, in order to receive my money via direct deposit, other than using TransferWise?
I have a pension also which gets deposited in my U.S bank account monthly. I've never had the need to transfer this to Thailand, but in the event I did, I could use my U.S. banks internet banking service (on-line) to process this money transfer directly into my Bangkok Bank account. My U.S. bank uses the ACH (IAT) format which is all that's needed. I have no idea if my pension provider has IAT or not, but that shouldn't matter once the money from them is received into my U.S. bank account.

Am I missing something here?

I have a feeling I am.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:30 pm

Dodger wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 pm
Am I missing something here?

I have a feeling I am.
Regarding me, the answer is yes. I haven't had an American bank account in many years, so for me the direct deposits from my retirement source always went directly to Bangkok Bank's New York branch. That ended when Bangkok Bank announced they would only accept direct deposits using the IAT format.

For me, if it wasn't for TransferWise, I would have had a real problem.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by 2lz2p » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:37 am

Dodger wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:11 pm

Immigration only wants to see a list of 12 consecutive foreign deposits of +65k, which you now know, was the reason you were turned down on your first renewal attempt.
The following are inconsistent. The first quote below is accurate - it is all they want to see re the monthly transfers (at least at Jomtien Immigration Office). To my knowledge, Immigration could care less about seeing Credit Advices (CA) - Although the Branch where I opened my account had to print out the CAs in order to complete letter Immigration wanted, the Immigration Officer did not want to see the CAs - only the letter.
Immigration only wants to see a list of 12 consecutive foreign deposits
deposits of +65k, which you now know, was the reason you were turned down on your first renewal attempt.
As to SWIFT codes and related information, I agree, when a foreign transfer comes in by SWIFT, a CA or similar document is created by the receiving bank - however, it is the receiving bank (e.g., Kasikorn in the TransferWise fiasco last July) that has this information - not the bank that received it as a domestic transfer (e.g., Bangkok bank re TW's July fiasco). Thus, as mentioned, they are not able to access the CA in order to certify to Immigration that the funds were from an International source without further inquiry to the international transfer receiving bank, which IMO they will not do. This month, the Pattaya City Expats Club will have a representative from Bangkok Bank HQ as a speaker - I will try to remember to ask her if 12 months of transfers can be accessed by main Branch banks or only the branch bank where the account was opened.

Also, I am not sure any Bangkok Bank main branch other than the one where your account was opened can access more than 6 months of transactions for your account. Since the 12 month foreign transfer rule came into effect last January (when no Embassy Certification letter can be obtained), I have seen numerous comments from various sources of those seeking the letter that they are told it will take a week to get the information from Bangkok HQ.

For me, other than the July fiasco when TW sent transfers to Bangkok Bank accounts through Kasikorn Bank, there has been no repeat. Also, as I mentioned, they now have "Long Stay" in Thailand as a purpose that can be chosen from their drop down menu. To my knowledge, no Bangkok Bank account holder has had a problem with receiving TW tranfers direct to their account - thus, no issues about having them shown in a letter to Thai Immigration. So, I find as does Windwalker that TW works quite well for me.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by 2lz2p » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:02 am

Dodger wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 pm
My U.S. bank uses the ACH (IAT) format which is all that's needed.
Can you please identify your US bank that uses the IAT format as it is apparently the only one (based on numerous reports from many sources) that offers the IAT option when sending ACH transfers OR by chance is your account a commercial vs retail account (reports are that some US banks will offer IAT format to commercial customers)?

I use Chase bank online banking which does not offer the IAT format - only domestic ACH transfers. Thus my reason for using Transferwise (TW). Until a few months ago, Chase also did not offer International Wire Transfers to their retail online banking customers, only domestic). As I understand it, it is possible to send a domestic wire transfer to the Bangkok Bank NY Branch SWIFT code (not the same as Bangkok Bank in Thailand) and your Thailand Bangkok Bank account number - apparently the information required for the recipient is sufficient to meet US requirements as is the IAT format). I do not use that means for two reasons, one is that Chase makes a phone call (automated) to give a code which must then be entered into the online request to verify the transaction and two, there is a fee for this service. Using TW is more convenient and their fees are acceptable to me for that convenience.

Although Chase recently set up for their online customers a "Global" transfer (International) method for a US $5 fee, it requires they do the conversion and send the funds in baht. I was able to do a comparison between their Global transfer and TW's transfer -- using US $2,300, Chase's Global transfer would have sent 1,600 baht less than the baht sent by TW -- thus, a hidden fee by using a very bad exchange rate for the sender.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by 2lz2p » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:22 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:30 pm
For me, if it wasn't for TransferWise, I would have had a real problem.
For all but Social Security & some US Government pensions, if you don't have a US Bank account to receive it, the Borderless TW account is the answer - if I recall correctly, GB, this is what you set up. It provides an ACH account number and individual bank account number so that such pensions can be direct deposited to it as if going to a US bank account and it is held as a US $ account. The holder of the Borderless account then can initiate a transfer whenever they want to their Thai bank account in the same manner as if from a US bank - if I recall correctly, fees are only charged when transfers are made. Although GB uses the 800k in the bank method, it does provide a solution for those with Bangkok Bank accounts that need a 65k per month deposit from a foreign source to meet Thai Immigration requirements (using the "Long Stay" in Thailand purpose when sending the transfer).

For those with Social Security and some US Government pensions (e.g., Veteran's Affairs, Office of Personnel Management, etc.), the SSA's International Direct Deposit (IDD) is now available and should be able to be sent to almost any Thai bank. Information on setting up an IDD is on the Pattaya City's (PCEC 's) Website: http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/ex ... -FUNDS.pdf As I understand it, these deposits have their own code, reflecting it is from Bank of Thailand - in this case, it is probable that the receiving bank can verify the foreign source so it can be included in a certification letter to Thai Immigration. As mentioned in my earlier post, a representative from Bangkok Bank HQ will be speaking to the PCEC later this month - I plan to inquire to see if this is in fact the case (she is from the department that handles foreign transfers).

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:54 pm

2lz2p post_id=99787 time=1583553765 user_id=122]

Can you please identify your US bank that uses the IAT format as it is apparently the only one (based on numerous reports from many sources) that offers the IAT option when sending ACH transfers OR by chance is your account a commercial vs retail account (reports are that some US banks will offer IAT format to commercial customers)?
My account in America is with U.S. Bank, which is one of the nation’s top-volume originators of ACH transactions. International ACH transaction (IAT) are not limited to commercial accounts, but available to anyone who has an account with U.S. Bank. I was transferring money from my U.S. bank account (using ACH) to my Kasikorn Bank in Thailand for years.

If your bank in the U.S. uses IAT, you can transfer funds to your bank account at Bangkok Bank in Thailand via the internet using the international ACH transaction (IAT) provided on your U.S. banks website. I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that most of the major U.S. banks made the transition to IAT several years ago. All you have to do is search on-line for this information.

By keeping my U.S. bank account when I retired, it allowed me the option of having money from my monthly pension transferred to Thailand in the event I ever needed, or, just allowing it to grow in my U.S. Bank account drawing interest.

Link to Bangkok Bank:

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal ... ork-branch

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:57 pm

Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:30 pm
Dodger wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 pm
Am I missing something here?

I have a feeling I am.
Regarding me, the answer is yes. I haven't had an American bank account in many years, so for me the direct deposits from my retirement source always went directly to Bangkok Bank's New York branch. That ended when Bangkok Bank announced they would only accept direct deposits using the IAT format.

For me, if it wasn't for TransferWise, I would have had a real problem.
Now I understand. If you don't have a U.S. bank account then your options are limited.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Gaybutton » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:06 pm

2lz2p wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:22 am
if I recall correctly, GB, this is what you set up.
Yes, that is correct.

If I am also correct about this, you were the first person to post, telling us about TransferWise and I will always be very grateful to you for that. That saved me.

Before I ever heard of TransferWise I was trying, from Thailand, to set up an American bank account and then use whatever method would be available to get my money direct deposited into my Thai bank account.

Nothing I did was going to work out the way I wanted. I would have had to have my retirement source send paper checks to me, forcing me every month to go through the anxiety of hoping the check would arrive without any problems. And then, once I had the check, the bank told me a paper check from the USA takes 45 days to clear.

Not only did TransferWise save me, but I get a much better exchange rate from them than I ever got from direct deposits into Bangkok Bank's New York branch. TransferWise's fee is slightly more expensive than the Bangkok Bank deposit was, but with a better exchange rate I still come out way ahead.

Dodger wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:57 pm
Now I understand. If you don't have a U.S. bank account then your options are limited.
Yes. I would have had to have my retirement income sent to me, from the USA to Thailand, by paper checks, as I explained above.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:14 pm

Now I'm starting to understand how some of you were forced to use the 800k method.

Based on everything we've talked about, I would advise anyone planning to retire in Thailand to continue maintaining their bank account in their home country after retirement, as well as open an account with a Thai bank which uses the IAT format. Plan, and validate your ability to transfer funds internationally to make sure you're always on solid ground.

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