NATO

firecat69
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#1 NATO

Postby firecat69 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:14 am

The spineless Republicans finally stood up and rebuked Idiot Trump about NATO. Wonder how his Russian Handler will like that?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics ... index.html

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#2 Re: NATO

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 am

Hopefully that will be only the beginning of a lot more rebukes from Republicans. Maybe they are finally wising up to the fact that the more they support Trump, the more they are taking apart everything the USA is, and always has been, piece by piece. Most former presidents, starting with George Washington, must be turning over in their graves. Is this what the founding fathers envisioned? I don't think so.

Who knows, maybe the Republicans will even reject Trump's Supreme Court nominee.

Well, I can dream can't I . . . ?

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#3 Re: NATO

Postby firecat69 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:30 pm

Unfortunately it appears that Trump does not care what the Senate thinks. He made a fool of himself at the Breakfast criticizing all the Allies of the USA.

Putin must be rubbing his hands together .

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#4 Re: NATO

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 pm

firecat69 wrote:He made a fool of himself at the Breakfast criticizing all the Allies of the USA.

"Of course, dear. What did you expect?"
- Gladys Cooper (Mrs. Higgins), 'My Fair Lady'

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#5 Re: NATO

Postby fountainhall » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:42 pm

I totally cringed when watching Trump this morning at the breakfast with the NATO Secretary General. He berated Jens Stoltenberg about Germany getting too close to a cosy arrangement with Russia by buying Russian oil and gas, a project initiated 16 years ago and strengthened after Germany decided to tear down its nuclear plants in the wake of the japanese Fukishima disaster. As Politico points out, he has made a potnentially dangerous link between security and defense issues and economic disputes. This from a man who is in Putin's pocket! He is now well beyond embarrassing. He surely has to be unhinged.

Trump, in his remarks, called out Gerhard Schröder, Germany’s former Chancellor, for his involvement in the pipeline project.

“It should have never been allowed to have happened,” Trump said. “But Germany is totally controlled by Russia. Because they’ll be getting 60 to 70 percent of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline … I think it’s a very bad thing for NATO and I don’t think it should have happened, and I think we have to talk to Germany about it.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald- ... o-germany/

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#6 Re: NATO

Postby firecat69 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:19 pm

I hesitate to say that Trump is the most unlearned President in Modern History but then I remember GW Bush who also was not inquisitive about the World. Bush almost drove us into the 2nd Great Depression and I fear Trump is leading us to a worse place.

Does anyone else notice that in Modern Times all Republican Presidents have been a disgrace except for Reagan and Old Man Bush.

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#7 Re: NATO

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:03 pm

firecat69 wrote:I fear Trump is leading us to a worse place.

Aren't we already there? All I see is the USA in a place I don't like and all it's going to do is get worse, especially if Congress won't seriously stand up to him. The concept of checks and balances seems to have gone by the wayside.

If anything good - anything good at all - has come as a result of the Trump presidency, or is even likely to come, would someone please tell me what it is? Maybe I'm missing something.

Only 2 years, 3 months, and 22 days until the next Presidential election. And if the Democrats don't produce a really good candidate and also get out and vote, I think Trump will win it. How's that for a frightening thought?

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#8 Re: NATO

Postby Jun » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:41 am

Trump is unfit to do the job, however he is damn right to raise the issue of Nato members not meeting the agreed 2% expenditure threshold.

There is no reason why the US taxpayer should have to pick up the tab for our defence, even though it is much appreciated. At least appreciated by some European citizens, including myself.

Then, all it needs is fairly swift political changes & Europe would not be able to rely on the US. These days, a country cannot rearm in a couple of years. In terms of political changes, I wouldn't trust Trump. Then Bernie Sanders was, I believe, raising doubts about NATO (hence I was supporting Mrs Clinton).
Also, we have seen this play out before in 1939. The US public was against involvement in that war.

So from a strategic & historical perspective, Europe should plan to be capable of defending itself. In alliance with the US, for as long as possible.

Incidentally, the EU is obstructing UK involvement in the Galileo system due to brexit (Galileo =the European GPS). Including witholding information about the encrypted part of it, which is relevant for military applications. At the same time as the UK has troops on the ground in EU states bordering Russia, as part of the NATO support package. If that's the way they want to play it with Galileo & brexit, the troops should be brought home.

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#9 Re: NATO

Postby firecat69 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:56 am

It really is much more complicated then most understand.

1. It is easy to forget that we did not want Germany to arm itself for easy to understand reasons for quite some time .

2. The 2% really has nothing to do with NATO but an idea that each member of Nato should spend 2% of its GDP on military. Lost in this discussion is that the European NATO countries combined already spend more on the Military then the Soviet Union. It is not the fact that the US has to spend what some member countries do not put up. Trump tries to say they should pay the 4% that the US spends. First of all US does not spend 4% on its military and much of what it spends are in areas of the world not having anything to do with NATO.

3. Dopes like Trump forget or never knew that the NATO members provide Military Bases all over Europe which the USA uses and if they had to pay for them it would be $ Billlions. These bases are used for all sorts of missions that have nothing to do with Europe or the NATO precepts.

4. The only time Article 5 has been invoked where all NATO countries must come to the aid of a member attacked , was when the USA was attacked on 9/11. NATO members not only rallied to our defense but lost blood and treasure in supporting us. Trump has no idea of any of this or if he does he is too stupid to understand it.

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#10 Re: NATO

Postby Gaybutton » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:39 am

A challenge, folks: Watch what Trump is doing and try not to vomit.
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