Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

fountainhall
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#81 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby fountainhall » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:26 pm

Corruption in politics takes various forms, and as such politicians most everywhere in recent years can be called corrupt. Would, they, I wonder, be so corrupt if money - vast quantities of it - was really drained from the political swamp? As an outside observer, the amount of money required in the USA just to get close to being a candidate is obscene. I also understand that US citizens have Supreme Court rulings and the First Amendment to thank for permitting the billions that are now ploughed into elections, often by private individuals with their own specific agendas - e.g. the Koch Brothers who have already announced a war chest of over US$400 million to spend on Republican candidates in the upcoming mid-term elections. Superpacs seem more or less to run the country!

Compare this with the UK where elections are generally held every five years but, as with the last election, can be called by the ruling party with just a matter of weeks notice. Not only is the period of campaigning vastly shorter than in the USA, there are very strict financial limits on donations to political parties and candidates. Each parliamentary candidate may only spend a maximum amount varying according to the number of constituents. In the last election, this totalled between £10,000 and £15,000 per candidate. Total spending by the parties in the 2015 election was just under £40 million. Add to this the total spent by the government electoral office to mail out candidate's election leaflets, ballot printing, operation of polling stations and fees to returning officers which was just under £115 million. The total comes to less than £160 million - around US$211 million.

Compare that to the amount spent in the 2016 election in the USA - US$6.5 billion. OK the US has 5 times the population of the UK. Pro rata, $211 million is small beer compared to $1.5 billion. No wonder politics are corrupt!

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#82 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby firecat69 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:09 pm

No doubt the Supreme Court screwed up and now there is more money then ever in the US political system. However what will be said if despite the ridiculous amount of money the Koch Brothers and others may put into the system , the Republicans get thrown out of power in the House and maybe but less likely the Senate.

Motivation comes in many forms for people to get out and vote. My suspicion in 4 months there will be many who do just that and then the Republicans will probably suffer the same indignities in House Hearings, although I am having a hard time ever remembering Democrats running those kind of hearings in my lifetime. But maybe I missed them.

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#83 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby Gaybutton » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:42 pm

firecat69 wrote:I am having a hard time ever remembering Democrats running those kind of hearings in my lifetime. But maybe I missed them.

The closest I can remember is Bobby Kennedy going after Jimmy Hoffa. Of course, Hoffa deserved far worse than he got, but even that cannot begin to compare to the way the Republicans conducted themselves during the Strzok hearing.

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#84 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby Captain Kirk » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:49 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Captain Kirk wrote:all the nice folks on the other side will put the world to right like they always have in the past.

If the world is destined to be put wrong, I'd much rather have it wrong Democrat style than wrong Republican style.

So would I, but I don't believe either side will do anything for anyone other than themselves. I'm just not seeing the need for the level of vitriol being aimed at the halfwits in the video clips. You back rats, red or blue, into a corner they will come out snarling and biting.

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#85 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:50 am

Captain Kirk wrote:I don't believe either side will do anything for anyone other than themselves.

For politicians one priority supersedes all others - getting reelected.

My personal disdain is not limited to politicians. For me, you definitely can add the clergy to the list.

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#86 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby Captain Kirk » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:19 pm

firecat69 wrote:Churchill, FDR, Mandela , Obama , Eisenhower etc etc etc . Were these, and many others, crooks? I think not!

Eisenhower, Churchill, FDR are all before I was born. Amazing someone needs to go back that far to think of some who MAY have been decent. I couldn't say. Mandela wasn't really a politician. The guy FOUGHT the political system and spent many years jailed because of that. When he came out he became some sort of deity, not of his own making, but hardly a politician really. Mind you, his wife certainly was a crook.
Obama? Maybe he went into it with best of intentions but he was happy to continue the bombings of innocent people in other countries. Was he a crook? Dunno but a let down yes for me anyway. Wonder how wealthy he is now? My guess is he has done very well out of his career. Bit like Blair really.

Listen, I don't even blame the politicians, they are what they are,leopards and spots etc. The people I blame are the fools who ignore their misdeeds and continue to vote for a continuation of corrupt people within a corrupt system. Can you imagine inviting someone to your home knowing he/she is a serial thief? I guess not, yet people allow these thieves, liars and warmongers to do as they please then re-elect them to do it all over again.

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#87 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby RichLB » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:29 pm

Captain Kirk wrote: Clinton is corrupt (both of them).

I've heard this charge from Trump apologists before, but when asked what corrupt practices the Clintons engaged in, I've yet to receive an answer. There's no point in listing the vast examples of corruption in the Trump administration. Somehow his supporters seem to believe the unsubstantiated charges from Fox News balance out Trump's malfeasance. So, I ask again, specifically what has Hillary done for you to justify that smear.

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#88 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:57 pm

RichLB wrote:There's no point in listing the vast examples of corruption in the Trump administration.

You couldn't even if you wanted to. My board does not have that many gigs available . . .

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#89 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby firecat69 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:55 pm

Captain Kirk wrote:
firecat69 wrote:Churchill, FDR, Mandela , Obama , Eisenhower etc etc etc . Were these, and many others, crooks? I think not!

Eisenhower, Churchill, FDR are all before I was born. Amazing someone needs to go back that far to think of some who MAY have been decent. I couldn't say. Mandela wasn't really a politician. The guy FOUGHT the political system and spent many years jailed because of that. When he came out he became some sort of deity, not of his own making, but hardly a politician really. Mind you, his wife certainly was a crook.
Obama? Maybe he went into it with best of intentions but he was happy to continue the bombings of innocent people in other countries. Was he a crook? Dunno but a let down yes for me anyway. Wonder how wealthy he is now? My guess is he has done very well out of his career. Bit like Blair really.

Listen, I don't even blame the politicians, they are what they are,leopards and spots etc. The people I blame are the fools who ignore their misdeeds and continue to vote for a continuation of corrupt people within a corrupt system. Can you imagine inviting someone to your home knowing he/she is a serial thief? I guess not, yet people allow these thieves, liars and warmongers to do as they please then re-elect them to do it all over again.


Even though it appears to be hopeless with you, I 'll try again. Angela Merkel, JFK, RFK, LBJ,George H W Bush, Michael Bloomberg,John Kasich, Ronald Reagan and many more. Are any of these perfect. Of course not! They are human beings and none of us are perfect. But looking at the totality of how they handled their stints as politicians IMHO they did more good then Ill and that is all we can hope for.

Your comment on Obama making money shows how narrow minded you are. Obama lived on his salary for 8 years and the generosity of expenses paid for by the US Government. Like every US President when he left office there were book deals and many other opportunities that ex Presidents have.

And by the way , the way you think there is not a decent President of a company in the World or probably even a decent person in almost any occupation. I am certain there would be plenty of people out there to say bad things about you as there are for me. Just the way it is.

`Without governments and the politicians who run them we would have anarchy!

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#90 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 5

Postby Captain Kirk » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:49 am

firecat69 wrote:Angela Merkel, JFK, RFK, LBJ,George H W Bush, Michael Bloomberg,John Kasich, Ronald Reagan and many more.

Couple of them I don't know much about, couple more from the history books but for fuck sake Bush? Business partners with Bin Laden? Give me a break. You're right though, you won't change my mind. If people would just truly hold politicians to account and make it clear that lying and lining your own pockets and warmongering throughout the world WILL result in being slaughtered at the following election, then we might just have a better set of politicians and governments. But for as long as folk just go along like sheep voting for more of the same, then the world will continue to make the same historic mistakes and organisations like the NRA and the big banks who keep the politicians well endowed with brown envelopes to keep the tax laws in their favour will continue to prosper.


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