Farang insurance dilemmas building up

[thaiworthy]

As far as health insurance. I picked up an annual policy with Liberty Mutual Group (LMG) (Pattaya Office) two years ago which provides 1 million baht coverage per medical incident - no deductible - in-patient costs only - no preexisting conditions - for 32,000 baht/year. Those enrolling over age 65 would pay more. This provides me basic coverage for any fairly significant medical needs, as well as a buffer if anything really major occurred and I needed in-patient emergency care before being fit enough to make the trip home (U.S.) for continued care. This policy is well worth the investment of 88 baht per day just for the peace-of-mind. Hell, that's the price of a cup of coffee and a cookie!

Just to make things clear, this is a travel policy, not to be confused with any expats' health insurance long-term medical policy.

"Travel insurance is designed for holidaymakers to cover cancellations, personal belongings and emergency medical treatment, whereas international health insurance is designed to cover inpatient treatment check-ups and continuing treatment of chronic conditions abroad."

https://www.cignaglobal.com/difference- ... -insurance

Let's not call it health insurance. It's a travel policy. See this thread for a discussion about health insurance.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7918&hilit=health+insurance

[aussie]

LMG i believe is now Pacific Cross Thailand. My research would lead me to purchasing a minimum 5 - 10 million baht Maxima or Maxima Plus policy with that insurer. These Thai based policies have a relatively low lifetime cap of 10-20 million cap for the Maxima and Maxima Plus plans compared to the more expensive but unlimited lifetime coverage of the International Insurance like Cigna and Asia Care.

I read some posters on the various forums believe they don't need health insurance or have a cheap health policy and will go back to their country of origin and use their "free" medicare system if they need some expensive surgeries. What happens if you are incapacitated and need constant hospital care in Thailand and cannot fly home? Please look closely at purchasing a suitable health coverage through an insurance broker who can also help deal with the insurance companies and have some peace of mind while enjoying your retirement.

[thaiworthy]

LMG i believe is now Pacific Cross Thailand.

Yes, and after Tony Dabbs died in 2014, the quotes he offered me were invalid. Pacific Care is no more, unless you were already in the system. Now you get Pacific Cross. I got caught in the gap. Also, both LMG and Pacific Cross require a health evaluation with a local hospital before they will accept you. If they find you have high blood pressure for example, you are excluded as a pre-existing condition. Fair enough. But these folks at the hospital argued with me about the cost of the evaluation. The agent said it should cost no more 7000 baht and they wanted 13,000. I called the agent, he argued with them, they argued with him and a half-hour later my temper was flaring and I tested high, so they diagnosed me with hypertension. And I don't and never have had any chronic heart ailment. After all was said and done the bill came to 7100 baht. Too late now.

Stay cool.

[travelerjim]

Something tells me you got taken by the hospital...
Tj

[fountainhall]

the maximum insurance they make available to foreigners is a payout max of 70,000 baht per year - hardly enough to cover much of anything serious enough to hospitalize you.

I am insured with a Thai company with a maximum limit per disability of Bt. 20 million per policy year.

I read some posters on the various forums believe they don't need health insurance or have a cheap health policy and will go back to their country of origin and use their "free" medicare system if they need some expensive surgeries. What happens if you are incapacitated and need constant hospital care in Thailand and cannot fly home?

Some countries do not permit this if you have been out of the country for longer than a certain period of years - with the UK I believe it is 6 years. So anyone who has continuously lived overseas for that period cannot return for elective surgery and care. For these UK citizens, even if they have paid all their taxes and national insurance contributions, the NHS will only provide service whilst visiting the country and in an emergency. The only way to obtain regular NHS care is to return to the UK and live there permanently (or to persuade the authorities that that is what you plan to do and can give some proof).

At least one regular poster in the chat rooms was unable to fly home and died in Thailand. That's the real risk factor for the uninsured.

[Daniel]

Anyone who has sold up back home to retire here, is not insured and now beyond insurable age will almost certainly have no possibility of retiring back home. The cost of renting even a broom cupboard, the cost of food and so on will make it prohibitively expensive unless he has family with whom he can stay. Personally I would find it extremely difficult - and depressing - if I had to return to the UK.

Returning to the UK can be a daunting prospect for a retired person who has exhausted their savings. But, it might not be as bad as you’d imagined.

Each local authority is different, but I will use my own (South Norfolk) as an example. A studio apartment can easily be rented in the area for £450/month.

In the circumstances above, Council Tax Support would cover your entire Council Tax liability. You would also receive £403/month towards your rent. You would get a guaranteed pension of £690/month. NHS treatment and prescriptions would be free. You would get free dental care, eye tests and glasses, if required. You’d be entitled to an age-related travel pass. If your over 75, you’d also get a free television licence. These benefits assume you are in good health. Of course, if you have mobility or care needs, a whole heap of additional help is available. You may be overestimating the cost of food in the UK; take a look at one of the supermarket’s web sites.

If anybody is considering a move back to the UK and wants to explore the benefits available, I would recommend the benefits calculator at http://www.turn2us.org.uk

Unfortunately, I can suggest nothing that would make the UK less depressing for you. I am happy in Thailand and happy in the UK. I guess we’re all different.

[Gaybutton]

I am insured with a Thai company with a maximum limit per disability of Bt. 20 million per policy year.

How about some details, such as the name of the company, the cost, whether you have to pay the hospital up front and wait for a refund, any restrictions, whether there is a coverage age limit, and whatever else would be relevant.

Just as important - have you ever had to use the insurance? If so, what was involved and was there any problem about it?

[Rogie]

Daniel, I've had a quick look at the turn2us website which looks very useful. I don't understand where you get the figure of £690 a month guaranteed pension - that's a lot higher than the quoted 'maximum basic state pension' of £122 a week. In some parts of the country it's not so easy to register with an NHS dental practice.

I agree with the comments of others that it would be depressing for a resident ex-pat to have to leave Thailand to return to their own country through force of circumstances, very often outside their control.

Although the daunting prospect can be ameliorated in the way Daniel describes, I imagine nothing can totally overcome such a reversal of fortune, a once proud man now resorting to topping up his pension with an assortment of hand outs. A pretty wretched existence all round really.

[Gaybutton]

Returning to the UK can be a daunting prospect for a retired person who has exhausted their savings. But, it might not be as bad as you’d imagined.

That comes across as if you are assuming the person even has money enough for airfare to get back home.

I believe the person Fountainhall is referring to was LetMeTellU, aka LMTU. I'm sure many remember him. I don't know whether he had any medical insurance at all, but he died miserably in Bangkok. He had no money. If he had medical insurance, they wouldn't cover his illness or he had exhausted it or it was the type of insurance that requires laying out the money first and waiting for a reimbursement. That's fine if you have enough money to lay out.

No hospital was willing to help him and no one gave him money enough to return to the UK. I remember he said he spoke to the British embassy and asked for help. The embassy turned him down and made it clear they do not finance anyone's return to the UK, even under those circumstances.

The point is if you're going to live in a foreign country without adequate medical insurance and merely hoping nothing serious will ever happen to you, then you're setting yourself up to find yourself in a similar situation - and nobody to help you.

[fountainhall]

How about some details, such as the name of the company, the cost, whether you have to pay the hospital up front and wait for a refund, and whatever else would be relevant.

Just as important - have you ever had to use the insurance? If so, what was involved and was there any problem about it?

A bit of background. For two decades I had a great worldwide policy which originally was provided by my then employer and which I was allowed to continue when I left to go out on my own. It then provided £1 million of annual cover, covered just about everything, including dental. When I had a lot of major dental work done soon after moving to Bangkok, the policy covered virtually all of the cost. The worldwide cover was important since I had to go to North America every year and it saved the need for travel insurance.

By the time I reached 55 and my premium rose a good deal more than previously, I became concerned. For the first time - and this was down to my own stupidity - I checked likely future premiums. I finally realised that I was going to face regular 5-year increases that would soon make it impossible to continue cover. I was also way over-insured for living in Thailand. To cut a long story short, my present insurer has already been mentioned - Liberty Mutual now Pacific Cross. Yes, I had to take a full medical examination before a policy would be provided, and there are a couple of issues which will not be covered because of the pre-existing condition clause. I elected not to take outpatient treatment. That would have added around Bt. 30,000+ to the premium. Since I have had the policy I have never spent anywhere near that amount on outpatient treatment annually. The policy has a Bt. 40,000 annual deductible. I have never had to claim on the policy - yet.

My premium now is Bt. 87,000, a small fraction of what it would have been under my earlier policy at my present age. I have also been putting some of the premium savings into a separate bank account to cover any problem re the pre-existing conditions. I am not concerned whether the company pays a hospital direct or not as I have enough in cash and cards to cover most procedures. I believe if it is given 24-hours advance notice, it will make arrangements directly with the hospital.

Before I accepted the policy I checked the company's reinsurers and was satisfied that it was one of the major international companies.