N Korea

firecat69
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#1 N Korea

Postby firecat69 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:20 am

BKK is under consideration as one of a number of places for Dump and Kim to meet.

Would not want to be in BKK at that time!

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#2 Re: N Korea

Postby a447 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:17 am

I imagine Bangkok would go into total lock-down.

I would have thought that Switzerland is where the meeting would take place, not Thailand.

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#3 Re: N Korea

Postby fountainhall » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:34 am

The problem is that Kim, like his father and grandfather, are shit scared of travelling outside their country. Even the trips to Beijing have always been made in a bullet-proof train - and I understand at least two trains make the run so any attacker is confused (a bit like Air Force 1 and its clone). He may have been happy to fly to Europe for his schooling but flying anywhere now that he is the Fuhrer is a very different matter. My vote goes to the South's side of Panmunjom! Since Trump is such a pal of Xi, Beijing could be a second choice. But that might lead to too much loss of face back home for the alleged leader of the Free World.

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#4 Re: N Korea

Postby Gaybutton » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:49 am

fountainhall wrote:My vote goes to the South's side of Panmunjom!

Wherever the meeting takes place, if Trump can get a verifiable agreement to halt the nuclear program and can also get an agreement to independent, uninhibited verification inspections, then I would certainly respect that. That would be at least one good thing to come out of Trump's presidency.

I would like it even better if the outcome includes opening up North Korea as a normal nation rather than a rogue nation, closing down the terrible concentration camps, a halt to arresting people and Draconian punishments for the slightest thing, and Kim ending this crap about him being a god-like figure. At least Hirohito gave up being a god-like figure at the end of World War 2, although he was essentially forced to do so.

I believe the sanctions must be working. I can't think of any other reason why someone like Kim would want these talks. I don't believe for a second he would want talks unless he needs them. I notice that since Kim expressed an interest in talks, there have been no more missile tests and no more threats.

I hope for the best, but I'm not holding my breath for much of a successful outcome, but any success at all is better than nothing. We'll see.

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#5 Re: N Korea

Postby Pattayamale » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Would it be a start to agree to officially declare an end of the Korean war, get a commitment from the USA to not to invade North Korea and lift sanctions nor seek a regime change, and a commitment from North Korea to halt and stop further expansion of its nuclear program?
With continuing discussion on opening diplomatic relations..
Part of this problem was when at the end of World War II, when Korea was taken from Japan, and divided into 2 zones. North administered by Russia (Communists) and the South by the United States.
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#6 Re: N Korea

Postby fountainhall » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:16 pm

I basically agree with Pattayamale. There has to be a formal peace treaty at the outset. The sticking point, though, will surely be the nuclear issue. I cannot see Kim agreeing to anything more than ceasing further development and permitting regular inspections. He saw what happened in Libya and how it descended into a nightmare after it gave up its nuclear capability. It is vastly optimistic to think after 60 years of hating the USA and with a brainwashed population, it will suddenly play the submissive puppy. Yet from what Trump and almost everyone in the administration and Congress are saying, that will not be acceptable to the USA. They are looking for a nuclear-free peninsula. I wonder which side will blink first.

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#7 Re: N Korea

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:07 pm

Of course, none of us know why North Korea is doing this, but I'm glad they are. Whether it has anything to do with Trump remains to be seen - that's if true information is ever revealed in our lifetimes.

My own guess is this is happening due to a combination of things. I believe the two most significant factors are the UN sanctions and Kim's recent trip to China. I think the Chinese somehow managed to convince him to do this.

It would be quite something if the outcome is normalization of relations between North Korea and the rest of the world. If North Korea opens an embassy in Washington, DC and the USA opens an embassy in Pyongyang, much of the mission is accomplished.

I would also like to see North and South Korean families able to be together again, North Koreans allowed to travel freely, people who escaped North Korea allowed to go home, if they choose, without fear of punishment, the starving people in North Korea having genuine access to food and decent living conditions, and North Korea closing their concentration camps and releasing the prisoners.

If any of that actually happens, I doubt it would be overnight, but it would be nice if North Korea starts taking steps in that direction.

Who knows? Maybe North Korea is finally on the verge of becoming part of the world. Maybe Kim Jong Un has at last come to his senses.

Can you imagine at some point in the unforeseeable future Pyongyang being attractive to gays when the gay go-go bars start opening? I wonder what the off fees will be. I can hardly wait for a447's trip reports . . .
_______________________________________________________

The Latest: US ambassador to UN hails N. Korea nuke suspension

by Associated Press

April 21, 2018

The announcements came days before North Korean leader Kim Jong Un is set to meet South Korean President Moon Jae-in in a border truce village for a rare summit aimed at resolving the nuclear standoff with Pyongyang.

The North’s decisions were made in a meeting of the ruling party’s full Central Committee which had convened to discuss a “new stage” of policies.

SEOUL, South Korea — The Latest on North Korea saying it has suspended nuclear and long-range missile tests and plans to close its nuclear test site (all times local):

9:25 p.m.

The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations has welcomed North Korea’s announcement that it has suspended nuclear and long-range missile tests, and praised the way the U.N. Security Council “really came together” in order to achieve that.

Speaking at an informal working meeting of the Security Council ambassadors in southern Sweden on Saturday, Nikki Haley said pressure and sanctions coming from the U.N. enabled the isolation of North Korea “until they had a good behavior, and now we are seeing they want to come to the table.”

U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres told reporters in Sweden that he was optimistic about North Korea’s decision, saying that “the path is open for the peaceful denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

In an earlier statement released by his office, Guterres wished the two Koreas ahead of their April 27 summit “every success in their courageous and important task of resuming sincere dialogue leading to sustainable peace on the Korean Peninsula.” He also praised the establishment of a direct telephone link between the leaders of North and South Korea.

___

7:45 p.m.

Sweden’s foreign minister has welcomed North Korea’s announcement that it has suspended nuclear and long-range missile tests and plans to close its nuclear test site ahead of summits with South Korea and the United States.

Margot Wallstrom said Saturday that it’s “good news” that steps are being taken “to de-escalate and to defer from further bomb and missile tests.”

But she added that “we have to keep the pressure up with the sanctions regime and everything else we are doing.”

Wallstrom spoke before an informal working meeting in southern Sweden between U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres and Security Council ambassadors.

___

2:25 p.m.

China, North Korea’s main ally, is welcoming Pyongyang’s decision to suspend its nuclear and missile tests.

The official Xinhua News Agency quoted Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang as saying Beijing wishes for North Korea to continue to achieve results in the development of its economy and improving the living standards of its people.

He says China will support North Korea through dialogue and consultations with “relevant parties” to resolve their concerns and improve relations.

Kim Dong-gil, the director of the Korean Peninsula Center at Peking University, says now that North Korea has nuclear weapons, he believes they will use them as a bargaining chip to officially end the 1950-53 Korean War, make arrangements to guarantee North Korea’s safety and ultimately allow North Korea to open up its economy to the rest of the world.

___

12:55 p.m.

President Donald Trump tweeted Friday night about reassuring signals from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and said it was a sign “Progress being made for all.”

His tweet said: “A message from Kim Jong Un: ‘North Korea will stop nuclear tests and launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles.’ Also will ‘Shut down a nuclear test site in the country’s Northern Side to prove the vow to suspend nuclear tests.’”

Trump, who is at his South Florida resort of Mar a Lago, was referring to North Korea’s announcement Saturday that it will suspend nuclear tests and intercontinental ballistic missile launches ahead of its summits with Seoul and Washington. But the announcement stopped short of suggesting it has any intention of giving up its nuclear weapons or scale back its production of missiles and their related component parts.

The new North Korean policy sets the table for further negotiations when the summits begin.

___

11:35 a.m.

Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has reacted with caution to North Korea’s announcement it has suspended nuclear tests and long-range missile launches.

Abe, a hard-liner on the North, said he welcomed the announcement carried by state media early Saturday as a positive development.

He says: “What is crucial here, however, is how this development is going to lead to the complete, verifiable and irreversible dismantlement of nuclear arms, weapons of mass destruction and missiles.”

Abe says Tokyo would maintain its policy coordination with Seoul and Washington.

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, who made the announcement at a party meeting, is to hold summits with South Korean President Moon Jae-in next Friday and President Donald Trump in late May or June.

___

9:20 a.m.

South Korea’s presidential office has welcomed North Korea’s announcement it’s suspending nuclear and long-range missile tests as “meaningful progress” toward the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

Presidential official Yoon Young-chan said in a statement Saturday the announcement will brighten the prospects for successful talks between Seoul, Pyongyang and Washington.

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un is set to meet South Korean President Moon Jae-in at a border truce village next Friday in a rare summit between the rivals aimed at resolving the nuclear standoff with Pyongyang. A separate meeting between Kim and President Donald Trump is anticipated in May or June.

___

8:20 a.m.

President Donald Trump appears to be confirming news that North Korea has agreed to suspend nuclear and long-range missile testing.

Trump has tweeted, “This is very good news for North Korea and the World” and “big progress!”

He also says he’s looking forward to his upcoming summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

North Korea said early Saturday it has suspended nuclear and long-range missile tests and plans to close its nuclear test site.

The North’s official Korean Central News Agency says the country is making the move to shift its national focus and improve its economy.

___

7 a.m.

North Korea says it has suspended nuclear and long-range missile tests and plans to close its nuclear test site.

The North’s official Korean Central News Agency said the suspension of nuclear and ICBM tests went into effect Saturday.

The country says it’s making the move to shift its national focus and improve its economy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/as ... story.html

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Captain Kirk
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#8 Re: N Korea

Postby Captain Kirk » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:08 pm

Pipe dream for NK people to be allowed to travel freely. If things are as bad as it's reported then they'd never return once they leave. For as long as Blofeld's top priority is the continuation of the Kim dynasty it is near impossible for anything to change. Looking at an incredibly slow process on this. Best case scenario says that visitors are allowed INTO NK in greater numbers and given freedom to behave like normal tourists ie. without being followed everywhere and from there the NK people start to realise what they are missing and gradually rise up against the ruling wankers.

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#9 Re: N Korea

Postby fountainhall » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:33 pm

Gaybutton wrote:I would also like to see North and South Korean families able to be together again, North Koreans allowed to travel freely, people who escaped North Korea allowed to go home, if they choose, without fear of punishment, the starving people in North Korea having genuine access to food and decent living conditions, and North Korea closing their concentration camps and releasing the prisoners.

If any of that actually happens, I doubt it would be overnight, but it would be nice if North Korea starts taking steps in that direction.

Who knows? Maybe North Korea is finally on the verge of becoming part of the world. Maybe Kim Jong Un has at last come to his senses.

Keep dreaming! Funny how we were all talking about outright war only a few months ago and now there are fairy tales about how the North will suddenly become a wonderful fantasy land of milk and honey! It's just not going to happen! Kim may be more sane than we thought, but his ultimate objective is continuation of his rule. That means he keeps very strict control. Freedom to travel, closing concentration camps and freeing prisoners isn't going to happen in my view. The relaxation of sanctions and the willingness of South Korea to help the North will no doubt ease the desperate food shortages that have continued for at least two decades and living conditions may begin to improve. More than that will take decades rather than years.

Captain Kirk wrote:from there the NK people start to realise what they are missing and gradually rise up against the ruling wankers.

I doubt that will happen for a generation - at least. We know that the North's citizens have been brainwashed in a way few on our planet have. We know, too, that there are some defectors who have braved the long escape route through China, Vietnam and Bangkok before reaching Seoul who then found it impossible to forget the debt they owed to the Dear Leader or whatever his title. Despite the comforts of everything in South Korea and despite the fact that their families had probably ended up in concentration-style camps after their defection and they would have the same fate, these poor brainwashed souls gave up their freedoms and voluntarily returned to Kim's embrace. There may well be some individuals who try to instil the benefits of greater freedoms on their compatriots. But I cannot see they will have any effect in the shorter term.

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#10 Re: N Korea

Postby Gaybutton » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:08 am

fountainhall wrote:It's just not going to happen!

Oh no! Does this mean we're not going to get a Pyongyang report from a447 . . . ?


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