Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

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#11 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:01 am

"Everything that can be invented, has been invented."
- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner of US patent office, 1899

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#12 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby fountainhall » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:11 am

Undaunted wrote:Who thought the internet was likely?
Who thought people could buy electric cars?
Who thought a flat screen TV as thick as a biscuit could happen?
Who thought a man could walk on the moon?
Who thought a man made vehicle could explore Mars?
Who thought a man's organs could be grown in a test tube?

Who thought? People that had the vision to make it happen!

The answers to the above are of course very few, if anyone. But there is a major flaw with all the examples in that analogy. To all intents and purposes, the above required both vision and new inventions that had never been considered before.

Flying supersonic is anything but new. The first manned US Air Force supersonic flight took place 71 years ago. The first commercial passenger-carrying Concorde flight took place 42 years ago. The enormous issues raised by supersonic fight and the huge problems it faces are far from new. They are all extremely well-known to many engineers and scientists.

I believe something will happen eventually to reduce travel times. It might be some sort of sub-orbital craft which effectively takes it into space for a short time before returning to land. Re-suable rockets are now a reality and reduce costs. But even the Elon Musks and Richard Bransons who are working on these craft will confirm such travel will be expensive and only for a select few. If, on the other hand, it happens to be a supersonic aircraft, I can see no possibility that it can work at anything like a cost that will make it affordable to the vast numbers who presently travel economy class. As Kevin Bowcutt, the Boeing Executive, said when revealing the concept, it is not just technological advances, new materials and new propulsion systems that are essential -

"there’s a lot that goes into a commercial aeroplane, including the market, regulatory and environmental requirements, so it will happen when there is a convergence of those things.”

I cannot see all these six issues converging.

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#13 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby firecat69 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:05 pm

Funny in the abstract discussion I agree with you. So many problems already known. Your words" I cannot see" are in fact are the opposite of pathfinders who say they cannot see but there must be a way.

Who knows what new fuel may be invented in order to propel an airplane into space at a very reasonable cost . Who can be sure there is not life on planets that we do not even know exist who have found the way to travel at speeds unimagined.

I know I know. I sound like a Trekkie . I am. I don't believe in God but I also don't believe that in the vast nothingness we call space that we are the only sentient creatures. I at least give credence that we just may be backward compared to others. Silly??? Oh well

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#14 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby fountainhall » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:41 pm

I fully accept that "I cannot see" and therefore I deal purely on speculation and a little bit of knowledge - perhaps even that bit that says it is a dangerous thing!! :o

But I find it very interesting that the article posted by the OP fails to mention some key points which I have found in another report of the presentation by Boeing last Tuesday. And these facts are surely not only crucial, they totally give the lie to any possibility whatever that Boeing is considering a supersonic aircraft able to carry up to 300 or so passengers.

First it's just a twin engine plane. I fully accept that most subsonic aircraft are now of the twin-engine variety and the objections thrown up when they were first fitted to long-range jets has been all but silenced. But what happens if one fails when you are cruising at 90,000 feet? Not an event I like to consider, Secondly, Boeing's concept is smaller than a 737 and seats only between 20 and 100 passengers. In other words, it is a smaller aircraft than the Concorde.

For this plane, the two engines would share the same air inlets, and the jet engines would operate up to Mach 2 or 3 before the inlets seal off the jet engine and divert air into the ramjets, which can handle faster airflow. The famed SR-71 Blackbird reconnaissance aircraft used such a system in the 1960s, as have multiple missiles and experimental aircraft. Boeing is collaborating with Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems on the engine technology.

Though Boeing hasn’t decided the final dimensions, the airplane (which doesn’t have a name yet) would be larger than a business jet but smaller than a 737, Bowcutt says, so presumably seating between, say, 20 and 100 passengers. It would cruise at 95,000 feet, which is 30,000 feet higher than the supersonic Concorde flew, and a full 60,000 feet higher than the average airliner. That altitude maximizes the efficiency of the engines and keeps turbulence to a minimum, since the air density is so much lower that far up in the air.


https://www.wired.com/story/boeing-hype ... t-concept/

I will make a small bet with the winner receiving an all expenses business class trip to Lyon and one of the best dinners they are likely to enjoy in their lives. If anyone can eventually prove that airlines will purchase, maintain and make commercially viable a fleet of twin-engine supersonic jets seating no more than 100 with a reasonable number of seats available at the same fare passengers would be paying in economy class on a subsonic aircraft, I lose. If it doesn't happen, I win! That, of course, assumes we are both alive at the time!!

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#15 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:23 pm

Aren't they going to eventually be able to just beam people where they want to go? I wonder how much that will cost the passenger.

Of course, assuming they haven't invented mobile phones into obsolescence, maybe there will be an app to beam you where you want to go.

There is still an inexpensive way of traveling - walking . . .

"Everywhere is within walking distance - if you have the time."
- Steven Wright

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#16 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby fountainhall » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:03 pm

Gaybutton wrote:There is still an inexpensive way of traveling - walking . . .

Transatlantic and transpacific? You need Jesus somewhere in your name!! :o :o

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#17 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby firecat69 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:15 pm

There are many scientists that believe there is no fundamental law telling us that beaming us around the world is impossible. Some scientists think by 2080 and of course at that time there will be no need for airplanes.

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#18 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby Jun » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:31 pm

Undaunted wrote:Who thought the internet was likely?

Exactly. Quite a few of these transformational technologies are ideas which had not even being thought of 50 years ago, particularly something like smart phones. They have gone from nowhere to almost universal adoption.

Supersonic passenger flight is in a different category. This is not new, it's a known technology and has so far proven impossible to do economically. The planes were under development over 50 years ago & Concorde actually flew about 49.5 years ago. The Russians also had one, even demonstrated at the Paris air show a few years later, although not entirely successfully.
Supersonic passenger flight is simply not economic and seeing large supersonic aircraft in regular service remains unlikely.

There will be new technologies which we have not even thought of, implemented at great speed. Meanwhile some old problems will remain unsolved.

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#19 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby fountainhall » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:11 pm

Jun wrote:The Russians also had one, even demonstrated at the Paris air show a few years later, although not entirely successfully

Some may not recall what was dubbed the Konkordski because of its many outward similarities to the Concorde. It broke up spectacularly coming out of a steep dive at the 1973 Paris Air Show. That killed its sales potential. After a second one crashed, an upgraded version was produced but confined to just a few routes within Russia. It was withdrawn from passenger service after only 55 flights. Reduced to carrying cargo, it was retired from all commercial activity in 1983.


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#20 Re: Fly Los Angeles to Tokyo in 3 Hours......Boeing Plan

Postby firecat69 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:02 pm

At least this is a fun thread to look into the future rather then all the threads on Trump and soon his new buddy Putin. The trouble with the children being detained fiasco, is that it sucks all the oxygen out of the room and hardly anyone notices that Kim is cheating already. Putin will be doing it right in front of Trump.


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