It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

fountainhall
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#1 It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby fountainhall » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:39 pm

I am sure tens of thousands of articles have now been published about Trump’s vile actions in separating children, often babies, from parents. It is tempting to adjudge that his use of words and phrases like “these aren't people, they are animals” and “”infesting our country” take us back to Nazi times. After all, isn’t “infest” a word reserved for rats and insects? Isn’t this the tactic adopted with such relish by the arch-propagandist Goebbels in Nazi times?

Yet it is incumbent upon us to recall that Trump is not the only one fanning the flames of hatred. Britons will be well served to realise that two of the baiters on Fox News are Steve Hilton, a one-time guru of British PM David Cameron, and the rabid pro-Brexiteer liar-in-chief, former Euro MP Nigel Farage. What is happening in the US is already happening in Poland, Hungary, Italy and elsewhere. Angela Merkel’s hold on power is now so eroded her anti-immigrant opponents may well oust her sooner rather than later.

An article in today’s Guardian highlights these issues and takes them further.

The signs are there, if only we can bear to look. Something is happening to our world. Others have noted the way the post-1945 global architecture is beginning to crumble, as Trump undermines the western alliance in favour of authoritarian tyrannies. But the postwar order is unravelling in another, more insidious way too.

Put starkly, the norms and taboos established after the world witnessed the Holocaust are eroding before our eyes. For 70-odd years, roughly the span of a human life, they endured, keeping the lid on the darker impulses that, we had seen, lurked within all of us. It steadily became taboo to voice undiluted racism and xenophobia. Those fears, those loathings of the stranger, never went away, of course. But they were held in check, partly by the knowledge of where such hatred, unrestrained, could lead.

Now, in the US, Italy, Hungary, Poland and elsewhere, the restraints are off. There even seems to be a macho thrill in breaking the taboo, in echoing the words and deeds of that darkest era in human history. It’s as if the boundaries that were drawn after 1945, demarcating acceptable human behaviour, were mere lines in the sand – and now the tide is coming in.

It doesn’t happen overnight. It happens bit by bit, word by word, each step taking us lower into the pit. It’s why every one of us has to fight today’s horror. Because if we don’t, who knows what terrors lie ahead?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-migrants

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#2 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby Jun » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:21 pm

fountainhall wrote:Angela Merkel’s hold on power is now so eroded her anti-immigrant opponents may well oust her sooner rather than later.

Her power is eroded partially because she swung too far towards free movement of people.

She has allowed all these middle-Eastern refugees into Europe. History shows people from that part of the world do not integrate properly. The worst of them support terrorism. There have been cases of women being assaulted by refugees and they change the whole character of German cities for the worse. Many are not even refugees, but economic migrants who flush their passports down the toilet so they can claim to be from whatever country is convenient to support their bogus asylum claim. They will no doubt have a high birth rate & continue to alter the character of Germany.

If you're going to have immigration, make sure it is immigration from people who will integrate & behave, not be like a permanent sore.

It is no wonder that even the liberal Germans do not like this.

Excessive numbers of people moving was one of the reasons for the brexit vote, along with the UK politicians allowing ourselves to be milked for money to the extent that our net contribution to the EU is twice that of France. That's blatantly unfair & is directly responsible for some of the brexit votes that I know of.

Italy has allowed its economy to be damaged by joining the Euro, when the economy was clearly not in a fit state to do this. So the voters start agitating.

Bad policies, bad decisions and allowing the pendulum to swing too far in one direction are behind lots of the changes. I see more bad decisions, even from the mainstream parties.

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#3 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby firecat69 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:39 pm

What balderdash. Refugees from any country will integrate if they are given some help and the population of that country is willing to give them a chance. How many times did the USA go through this. Italians were not wanted . Irish were not wanted etc etc etc.Chinese were not wanted. . All the same BS was given. They don't speak the language , they have no skills and yes it was hard for many but they persevered and the integration took place.

Most recently the same BS was advanced about Muslims and yet they have integrated and in fact it is that integration that has not allowed further Mass Attacks on the US. It is the Muslims who provide the most valuable information to the FBI etc.

More BS about crime and the people like Trump who advance the BS. Crime is at its lowest point in Germany for the last 20 years.

Facts matter not BS from Idiots like Trump and publications that are willing to write alternate facts in order to advance their own agenda and of course people who are willing to regurgitate those falsehoods.

Yes Germany is having a problem because much of the rest of the world has turned its back on these refugees including the USA.

Germany has stepped up probably in reaction to their advancement of the Holocaust .

I applaud them and could give a shit less what the Italians think. They are the least industrious people in Europe except possibly the Greeks and their problems are mostly laziness.

Much of the rest of the world should be ashamed of their failure to step up for Syrian refugees. I am certainly ashamed of my country!

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#4 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:55 pm

I believe the worst atrocities of all have been happening to the Royhingyas. Very little has been done to help them and few politicians and heads of state even mention the problem.

It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that Trump has never even heard of them. And it's a sure bet he would totally oppose taking any of them in.

If these people are even to survive, the world needs to do a lot more than simply say, "Isn't that terrible?"

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#5 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby Jun » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:44 am

firecat69 wrote:What balderdash. Refugees from any country will integrate if they are given some help and the population of that country is willing to give them a chance.

Firstly, whether you like it or not, the immigration has cost Mrs Merkel votes. Immigration influenced the brexit vote. Whether you like it or not.

Then as for the immigration, as long as their minds are not ****ed by religion, refugees from any country will integrate.

All the people emigrating to the UK get more or less an equal chance. Some do fantastically well & some of our richest people are well respected immigrants. The Hindu immigrants get about the same chance as the Sikhs, which is about the same chance as the Moslems. Two out of those 3 groups integrate, at least to an acceptable standard.

Only one out of the 3 groups has been responsible for any significant number of terrorist atrocities.

Only one of the 3 groups annoys the local population by trying to impose it's views on the existing society. Local examples include objecting to local butchers having pork in the window and objecting to an entertainment license a the gay sauna, as it's near a holy place. Well the local mosque is not even in sight of the sauna.

That one group threatens what is otherwise a fairly successful experiment with multi-culturalism. Whether you like it or not, if a leader like Merkel lets in 1 million people from Moslem countries, parties like the AFD will gain votes.

How you would like the world to be & how it really is are two different things. Don't confuse them. [Recommended reading: Principles, by Ray Dalio]

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#6 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby Gaybutton » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:47 am

Jun wrote:Then as for the immigration, as long as their minds are not ****ed by religion, refugees from any country will integrate.

That is not always the case. Have you ever been to Miami, Florida - where I come from? A huge section of the city is known as "Little Havana" because of all the refugees that either came in during Jimmy Carter's Mariel Boat Lift or simply managed to somehow float across to Miami from Cuba.

They were all accepted because, at least then (I don't know if it still works that way) people coming into the USA from Communist Cuba were considered legitimate refugees.

The Cubans in "Little Havana" are not known as trouble makers - well, maybe with the exception of Marco Rubio - but many never really integrated. If you go into that section of town, if you don't speak Spanish I wish you luck trying to communicate. Even major department stores and grocery store chains - if you don't speak Spanish, you can't communicate. Non-Spanish speakers can't even get a job in that area. When they're looking for bilingual people, they're not looking for Americans who can speak Spanish. They're looking for Cubans who can speak English - and in that area such people can be few and far between.

In Florida, school teachers were forced, by decree of some idiot judge, to take lengthy courses in their culture instead of teaching students how to integrate into typical American culture. And when the courses were over the teachers were tested. If they didn't pass the test, they had the option of repeating the courses - just once - or losing their jobs.

Again, the "Little Havana" Cuban refugee population are not trouble makers. Most are perfectly nice people. But they have their own culture and are sticking to it. I can understand that, but along with it they also need to understand and assimilate ours, considering they came to our country.

I try to do that in Thailand. I've done my best to learn to speak Thai, and I think I communicate quite well. I understand and accept their culture, even the things on my "I Don't Get It" list. I may not "get it," but if I want to live here I have to accept it and understand it is the way things work in Thailand. Sometimes I laugh at it. Sometimes I'm frustrated by it. Sometimes I cannot figure out any semblance of logic behind it. But I am not here to expect anything about Thailand to change because I prefer certain things to be different.

I talk about those things among my farang friends, but I never complain to the Thais - even when loudspeaker advertising trucks blare past my home at 7:00am. I certainly don't try to insist that the Thais change their ways to suit my own. Maybe I do so well in Thailand, in part, because I was already used to living within languages and cultures different from my own before ever coming here.

As Geezer says, "The day I don't like living in Thailand anymore, I know where the airport is."

Also in Florida, and I consider it truly unfortunate, there is a large Seminole Indian tribe, but the tribe is continually getting smaller. I lived literally next door to the local Seminole Indian reservation.

The younger Seminole generations are assimilating our culture rather than retaining much of their own. Indians (and yes, they much prefer to be called Indians instead of being called Native Americans) my age complain that the younger generation can no longer speak, read, or write in their native language. Despite it being tax free, many Indians have moved away from the reservations and live elsewhere. They've opened Las Vegas style casinos on their land and are making a fortune, but their native culture is on the verge of extinction and very well may become extinct when the last of the elder generation is gone.

In any case, religion has nothing to do with any of it.

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#7 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby fountainhall » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:47 pm

Jun wrote:She [Merkel] has allowed all these middle-Eastern refugees into Europe. History shows people from that part of the world do not integrate properly. The worst of them support terrorism. There have been cases of women being assaulted by refugees and they change the whole character of German cities for the worse. Many are not even refugees, but economic migrants who flush their passports down the toilet so they can claim to be from whatever country is convenient to support their bogus asylum claim. They will no doubt have a high birth rate & continue to alter the character of Germany.

If you're going to have immigration, make sure it is immigration from people who will integrate & behave, not be like a permanent sore.

I find that a rather typical Trumpism! Mostly non-Muslim Europe has taken in over 1 million Syrians with Germany the largest share at 600,000. Non-Muslim Canada 54,000. Non-Muslim USA took almost the smallest number at 33,000. These are not terrorists but some of the more than 5 million ordinary folk who have been driven from their country by an insidious proxy civil war that is one of the continuing after-effects of the doctrine of George Bush and those he persuaded to be his allies in massively destabilising and creating power vacuums in the Middle East. So the USA which basically started that disastrous ball rolling leaves the rest of the world to clean up! Syria is now virtually the Middle East's Vietnam War.

There is zero evidence that these refugees cause more crime than that committed by citizens of a host country. The Pew Research Centre has statistics which prove this is a lie! Similar to Trump's lie about an immigrant attack in Sweden which never took place!

According to a study from Pew Research Center, 71% of US Republicans and 34% of Democrats believed that immigrants made crime rates worse.
However, this is patently untrue.

According to the New York Times, census data between 1980 and 2010 consistently reveals that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natural-born US citizens.

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/conten ... and-crime/

Besides, it is fact that most of these refugees have just one aim - to return to their own country once the war is over. Although how that will be possible in the near future given the utter devastation of so much of the country I have no idea.

Let's not forget that America took in more than 1 million largely non-Christian Vietnamese and Cambodian citizens who fled their countries as a direct result of American actions and the disastrous American-led wars in their countries. In 2016 these immigrants enjoyed a higher median family income at $64,191 than the national average of $59,039. They are better educated and generally obtain good and well paid jobs. Those of Asian descent are now the second largest immigrant community in the USA after Hispanics. 2010 census data showed that 50% of Asian immigrants had achieved a Bachelor's Degree. This compares to the national average of 28% for all Americans and 34% for non-Hispanic whites. And, crucially for the argument, despite being victimised on many occasions by other ethnic groups, Asians have the lowest crime rate of any ethic grouping in the USA! So much for the arguments against non-Christian immigrants!

Oh, and by the way, what was the largest group of immigrants legally accepted into the USA in 2015? According to the Pew Research Center it was 110,000 mostly non-Christians from India! And is it not strange, then, that the largest group of the 84,995 refugees who were resettled in the USA in 2016 were from the Democratic Republic of Congo, followed by citizens of Syria, Myanmar, Iraq and Somalia. 46% of that group were Muslims!

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... mmigrants/

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#8 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby Gaybutton » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:58 pm

fountainhall wrote:Similar to Trump's lie about an immigrant attack in Sweden which never took place!

If Trump's nose grew similarly to Pinocchio's, I wonder how long it would be by now . . .

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#9 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby firecat69 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:54 pm

And thus is the problem with Twitter, Facebook and all the other modern BS means of communication. Trump can make the lazy believe alternate facts.

When you have too many people believe alternate facts rather then reality bad things happen even when intentions might have been good. You can have Russians spreading lies all through Eastern Europe . Here in the USA we have Fox and others that blatantly lie 24 hours a day and people who are working don't have time or are too lazy to discern what is true or false.

Many people believe the BS about increase in crime in Germany because they are either too busy or too lazy to understand or search for the the true facts.

It always amazes me how people can think they are smarter or better because they had the good luck to be born in a country where their goals could be attained rather then a country where getting enough water or food to survive the day is their main goal.

It is the reason I am never able to understand the BS about God and him having a grand plan for millions to die from hunger or disease because he put them on the wrong part of the planet. So sick of these useless religious leaders who enrich themselves by spreading this BS. Catholic Church, Muslims etc etc etc are if not responsible for almost all the problems in the world certainly make them worse.

My rant for the day and unfortunately it does not make me feel a bit better.

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#10 Re: It's not just Trump - Our World is Changing for the Worse

Postby fountainhall » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:44 pm

firecat69 wrote:I am never able to understand the BS about God and him having a grand plan for millions to die from hunger or disease because he put them on the wrong part of the planet. So sick of these useless religious leaders who enrich themselves by spreading this BS.

As Churchill said of the Soviet Union, it is "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma!"


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