Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

lvdkeyes
Posts: 3800
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:40 pm
Location: Pattaya
Been liked: 32 times
Contact:

#21 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby lvdkeyes » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:14 pm

With him being arrested and being deported, what does this do to his application for green card?

RichLB
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:13 pm
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 30 times

#22 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby RichLB » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:49 pm

Gaybutton wrote:
RichLB wrote:I see GB's logic, but he does not apply it consistently.

I don't? What's the part where I'm being inconsistent? My whole point is if a person is caught illegally in the USA, then that person is probably going to be deported. Anyone illegally in the USA is well aware of that.

The inconsistency flows from the issue of selective enforcement. To argue that the law is the law requires deporting millions of known undocumented workers. Singling out isolated individuals makes a mockery of this "law" and, as such, invalidates it.

firecat69
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 am
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 40 times

#23 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby firecat69 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:51 pm

RichLB wrote:
Gaybutton wrote:
RichLB wrote:I see GB's logic, but he does not apply it consistently.

I don't? What's the part where I'm being inconsistent? My whole point is if a person is caught illegally in the USA, then that person is probably going to be deported. Anyone illegally in the USA is well aware of that.

The inconsistency flows from the issue of selective enforcement. To argue that the law is the law requires deporting millions of known undocumented workers. Singling out isolated individuals makes a mockery of this "law" and, as such, invalidates it.

Exactly!

User avatar
Gaybutton
Site Admin
Posts: 14305
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Thailand
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 499 times

#24 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:59 pm

RichLB wrote:Singling out isolated individuals makes a mockery of this "law" and, as such, invalidates it.

Obviously I disagree. This man was not singled out. If, when he was asked to sign the waiver, he had turned around and walked away, there would have been no incident. But when he signed the waiver, game over.

My analogy is speeding drivers. Thousands of people speed and get away with it, but when a police officer catches a speeder, that's the one who will pay the penalty. Same with illegal aliens. Most living in the USA don't get caught and the odds are they never will. But when someone living in the USA illegally does get caught, for them it's game over.

Whether you agree with my analogy or not, whether you think this man was singled out or not, the fact is he got caught and is now in the hands of immigration authorities. When the man's status was discovered, if ICE is doing anything wrong by holding him, I'd like to know what it is and what ICE could have done differently.

Fair or unfair, singled out or merely unlucky, nobody is addressing either of my two questions:

1. Now that he is in the custody of immigration authorities, what can they do with him? Do you think they can just open the door and let him walk free?

2. Is there any other country in the world that permits people to remain there illegally if they are caught?

I feel badly for him and his family and I agree that the immigration laws need a major overhaul, but until that happens the hands of immigration are tied.

Nothing is going to alter the fact that he was living illegally in the USA and he got caught. As I said, Immigration officials don't have the authority to decide that it's a mockery, unfair, or anything else. They can't just let him go. The man now has only two choices. Either accept deportation or take his case to court.

Maybe a judge will rule in his favor, possibly saying his case was discriminatory, but I doubt that will be the outcome. According to the news reports, the Army base requires military ID to enter. Without it, the person who wants to enter has to undergo a background check. He signed a waiver that permitted the background check and that's how he was caught. Anyone, not just him, without a military ID has to undergo the background check to enter the base. Apparently this man didn't realize that a background check would reveal his illegal status.

How does that constitute singling him out?

firecat69
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 am
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 40 times

#25 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby firecat69 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:02 pm

You falsely keep claiming that we are outraged because he was singled out. Far from it. We are outraged at the system that would allow him to be singled out. We are outraged that millions of undocumented workers are making people rich by working for peanuts in jobs no-one else wants.

And don't tell me the system has to be changed. We have a broken government. It does not respond to 73% of the citizens who want stricter gun laws, or 77% who want better prescription drug prices and the list goes on and on.

The country I grew up in, certainly had problems but many did not have the vast majority of citizens on the side of change with nothing happening.

I am certainly outraged at the Dope in the WhiteHouse and the dopes like Clinton who allowed him to be elected.

Generally I am outraged and I feel sorry for the pizza man getting caught up because we have 535 idiots in DC not counting employees at the White House should be ashamed of themselves for allowing the USA to descend into the rubbish that it has become.

User avatar
Gaybutton
Site Admin
Posts: 14305
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Thailand
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 499 times

#26 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 pm

lvdkeyes wrote:With him being arrested and being deported, what does this do to his application for green card?

It will probably be denied.

Immigration Violations

Your immigration history will be reviewed. Immigration officials will likely deny your green card application if you have overstayed a visa by six months or more, or if you have ever entered the country unlawfully. The government will also seek to determine if the parent’s visa (if applicable) has ever been misused.

https://citizenpath.com/reasons-green-c ... on-denial/

Based on that, even if this incident never happened, once his status was checked and it was then discovered that he had been ordered to leave, but didn't, he probably would have been denied anyway



firecat69 wrote:You falsely keep claiming that we are outraged because he was singled out.

I never claimed any such thing. Show me where I did. I said he was not singled out - and he wasn't. He did that to himself by signing that waiver - the same waiver anyone else trying to enter that army base without an army ID would have to sign if they want to get in. Tell me how doing with him the same thing they would do with anyone else singles him out.

I don't know what he was thinking when he signed that waiver or if he understood what he was signing and what it might reveal, but he did sign it. If he had simply turned around and walked away, the only problem he would have had would have been explaining to his boss why he didn't deliver the pizza.

You tell me - when the background check revealed that he was not only living in the USA illegally, but had been ordered to leave and never did - what were they supposed to do then, ignore it?

Again, nothing alters the fact that he was living in the USA illegally and he got caught. The only one who had done anything wrong was him. If his employer knew he was illegal, then he did the wrong thing too and might end up having his own consequences to face. In this incident, did I miss someone else having done something wrong?

In my last post I asked two questions and still nobody has addressed either of them. I'm interested in what you have to say about what immigration authorities can do with him now.

By the way, I fully agree with the rest of your post.

User avatar
windwalker
Posts: 1205
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:59 am
Liked: 139 times
Been liked: 53 times

#27 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby windwalker » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:20 pm

A federal judge in Manhattan on Saturday temporarily halted the deportation of a New York pizza delivery man at least until a court hearing on July 20.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/09/nyre ... icle-click

lvdkeyes
Posts: 3800
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:40 pm
Location: Pattaya
Been liked: 32 times
Contact:

#28 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby lvdkeyes » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:05 pm

The argument that "it's the law" is weak. How many laws over the years have been proven to be bad laws?

RichLB
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:13 pm
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 30 times

#29 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby RichLB » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:59 pm

lvdkeyes wrote:The argument that "it's the law" is weak. How many laws over the years have been proven to be bad laws?

I especially like California's speeding laws. The maximum speed in the state is 65 mph, but if you go that speed you get a ticket on the LA freeways for impeding traffic. So much for the "it's the law: argument.

User avatar
Gaybutton
Site Admin
Posts: 14305
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Thailand
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 499 times

#30 Re: Pizza delivery man faces deportation - What's your opinion?

Postby Gaybutton » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:55 pm

lvdkeyes wrote:How many laws over the years have been proven to be bad laws?

I don't think I said it's a good law, but that doesn't help anyone once they're caught. I agree the law needs to be changed so that people already living in the USA can get some sort of legal status. I said that in a previous post.

Nevertheless, I don't understand what makes anyone think he had a right to be living in the USA in the first place. Even his lawyers are not trying to say he had any right to be living in the USA. They are hoping to get him released on humanitarian grounds. They are also saying he is a victim of racial profiling. I don't see that unless he is the only one, or only Hispanics, who had to sign a waiver to get into that army base. If that turns out to be the case, then I can see the singling out argument. But even if that happens, I doubt the deportation case would be dismissed and he would get to live in the USA legally after all.

In my opinion, why he was caught is not the issue. The fact that he was caught is the issue, although I don't believe in just stopping people to check whether they're in the USA illegally on the basis of race. However, when a circumstance such as this case arises, I think what took place was absolutely legitimate.

His lawyers got a hold on his deportation until a hearing on July 20. Meanwhile he's going to be held in some sort of detention center until then. Even after that he is likely to be held in detention until final disposition of his case. Sometimes that takes years. I don't know which is worse, that or deportation.

I also said I feel sorry for him and his family. Many say what is happening to him is immoral. Meanwhile he is the one who put himself into this position and by doing so he also put his family into this position. Where is the morality in that? No one forced him to live illegally in the USA and no one forced him to sign that waiver. Nothing has been reported as to whether he had set up any kind of plan for his family against the day he gets caught.

Maybe the law is a bad law, but I don't see this man as an innocent victim either.


Return to “Everything Else”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], RichLB and 29 guests