Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

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#21 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:25 pm

L.A. Times wrote:"Parents, what would you do if your child lectured and ridiculed a U.S. senator on national television?" Fox News personality Todd Starnes tweeted after Kasky and other students ripped into Rubio.

If it was my kid, in the context of this issue the first thing I'd do is raise his allowance and if the opportunity arises, encourage him to do it again, with even stronger language - and profess my hope that next election, Rubio is voted right out of office.

If Rubio thinks assault weapons belong available to anyone other than police and military, when he's voted out of office, let him open a gun shop.
__________________________________________________________________________

When it comes to guns, the Parkland shooting survivors aren't here to play nice

by Matt Pearce

L.A. Times
February 23, 2018

Since the shooting massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School last week, a student there named Sarah Chadwick has amassed a Twitter following of more than 150,000 people. On Thursday night, Chadwick decided to share a thought with them.

Was it time for a message calling for thoughts, prayers and privacy?

Hardly. It was time to dunk on one of Florida's U.S. senators for taking donations from the National Rifle Assn.

"We should change the names of AR-15s to 'Marco Rubio' because they are so easy to buy," Chadwick wrote, earning 45,000 retweets.

This is what politicizing a tragedy looks like, and the kids are more than happy to keep doing it.

With 17 of their classmates and faculty shot to death, the students of the school have become celebrity activists, whom many left-leaning Americans have embraced as the new leaders of the nation's gun control movement.

The students have been bold, confrontational and even abrasive, rarely holding back their anger, even if it means disrespecting their older, establishment opponents. They say what they mean.

"Honestly, just using brutal honesty — that's it," said student David Hogg, one of the movement's most prominent voices. "I know people are saying it's intense. I would argue the opposite. We're fighting for these kids that died because they can't fight anymore. We're really trying to get justice for them."

Hogg added: "Everybody deals with grief in a different way. For me, it's anger, and wanting to prevent whatever caused it from happening again."

The students' stridency has added pressure on lawmakers and kept the shooting from fading from the headlines.

It has also insulted the feelings of right-wing adversaries at several points, including by implying gun rights supporters have the 17 deaths at Stoneman Douglas on their hands.

"Sen. Rubio, it's hard to look at you and not look down a barrel of an AR-15 and not look at [suspected shooter] Nikolas Cruz," student activist Cameron Kasky told Rubio at CNN's Wednesday night town hall with students, parents and lawmakers. The remark drew scorn on the right.

"No thanks, Cameron," a writer at the conservative website RedState.com fired back at the student later. "I don't need some 17-year-old putz to defend my kids. In fact, either of my daughters, particularly the 13-year-old, can kick your ass. And when it comes to choosing sides, I'm on the other."

The students have also faced accusations of being, well, disrespectful brats.

"Parents, what would you do if your child lectured and ridiculed a U.S. senator on national television?" Fox News personality Todd Starnes tweeted after Kasky and other students ripped into Rubio.

The kids know exactly what they're doing, and they don't care about the criticism.

"When these politicians kill our friends, why are we expected to play nice?" Hogg said. "Obviously it's due to their inaction; that's what we're aiming at."

Hogg's own prominence has led to a backlash of conspiracy theories accusing him of not being a student at the school. It also led him to question who, exactly, has been lowering the discourse.

"You know what's disrespectful?" Hogg asked. "Calling out witnesses to a mass shooting and calling us actors. That's disrespectful. And even questioning whether we were even … there.… We are teenagers … we're not known for being mature, but c'mon."

The students' advocacy has also been expressed in the language of their generation, which is well-versed in the combative "dunks," "burns" and "owns" of arguing on social media. They know how to speak into their own cameras, they know how to play to audiences online, and so when a fight breaks out on social media, it's on their turf.

Fellow student Chadwick's AR-15 zinger about Rubio drew the scorn of Fox News host Laura Ingraham, who, on her own Twitter account, called out the "sophomore" by name to flag concern over "HOW TEENS SPEAK TO AND ABT ADULTS."

Chadwick, suddenly identified for misbehavior by one of the most powerful figures in conservative media, responded drolly with three words that earned 15,000 retweets: "I'm a junior."

While the movement has inspired students at schools around the nation to perform walkouts in support of gun control, the history of 21st century activism has shown that there are upsides and downsides to organizing over social media.

Platforms such as Twitter excel at helping newfound activists to create and document conflict, and to attract ever-larger audiences for their own messages. Their visibility also helps recruit like-minded peers outside of their own communities.

But over the long term, social media platforms can also pose a risk to activist movements by magnifying and publicizing disputes between members or creating bitterness among core supporters who play key roles but who attract less public attention.

So far, few signs of internal dissent seem to have broken out among Stoneman Douglas students, whose cohesion has struck longtime advocates as unique.

"I don't think we've ever seen an entire community, including the survivors, have a clear call to action," said Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action, a gun control group.

In past mass shootings, it has been common for family members of victims to become passionate, outspoken gun control advocates.

But in Parkland, "it's as if all of them agreed immediately that stronger gun laws would prevent anyone else from going through this tragedy again," Watts said. "These teens are realizing they don't have to live this way, they don't have to die this way."

The students' stridency, however disliked by their opponents, seems to have had an effect on Republican lawmakers. President Trump and Florida Gov. Rick Scott, who are strongly supported by the NRA, have signaled that they are open to raising the age limit for buying weapons.

Grilled by students, Rubio declined to say he would stop accepting donations by the NRA, but he said he would be open to banning large ammo magazines or supporting other legislation.

Rubio also learned firsthand the risks of talking to a radical younger generation that has been unfamiliar with the past failures of the gun control movement, including the inability to bring back the nation's assault-weapons ban.

"Once you start looking at how easy it is to get around it, you would literally have to ban every semiautomatic rifle that's sold in the U.S.," Rubio said at the town hall with students and parents.

Rubio was implying that such a move would, politically, go way too far.

What Rubio did not anticipate is that the audience of students would start applauding at the idea.

"Fair enough," Rubio said. "Fair enough. That is a valid position to hold."

But he added the political reality that students will face as they prod federal and state lawmakers around the country: "My colleagues do not support banning every semiautomatic rifle sold in America."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-rud ... story.html

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#22 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby firecat69 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:17 pm

I think sometimes lost in all these back and forth arguments especially by those who criticize the kids is that incremental steps may be happening. The age to buy an assault weapon may be raised. Some are talking about ammunition available. Enhanced background checks .

Now there has to be follow through to make sure it is not just talk. But that is where it may be different. These kids are not going to shut up and the media for once may keep following them rather then moving on to the next shiny object.

Big companies are fleeing from any connection to the NRA , including banks, car rental companies, airlines . They don't want the stench of the NRA on them. That means either the NRA will need to change its tune or be left behind.


https://moneyish.com/ish/here-are-the-m ... h-the-nra/

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#23 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:00 pm

firecat69 wrote:Big companies are fleeing from any connection to the NRA , including banks, car rental companies, airlines

I'm glad they're doing that. It's a shame they ever had ties with NRA in the first place, but the more NRA and any similar groups are ostracized and shunned, the better off things will be.

I'm still waiting for any semblance of logic to be applied to responses from those who still think assault weapons, good only for killing, are a wonderful thing to be available to the public. Their reasoning, if you can call it that, is convoluted and I have yet to hear any of it that makes any sense to me.

If these people want guns so badly, I wish they would go to BB guns, or better still, cap guns such as the ones I and most other kids had when we were young children, still wearing Davy Crockett coonskin hats and playing cowboys and indians.

Just as fur coats eventually went out of fashion, maybe these kids will lead the way for guns to go out of fashion too. I hope future generations will look back and wonder, "What were those gun nuts thinking?"

"You know who is the head of NRA? Wayne LaPierre. What a nerdy name for the head of NRA. Hi, I'm Wayne. I'm a gun person. Bang bang."
- George Carlin

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#24 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Up2u » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:07 pm

Would someone explain why the NRA with all its political clout is exempt from paying federal income taxes?

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#25 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby lvdkeyes » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:34 pm

At one time they were considered to be a non profit organization. LOL LOL

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#26 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:14 pm

To all the gun nuts out there - You want to carry Ar15s and AK47s? You want to carry even more powerful weapons than those. You want to kill?

I have the perfect solution for you. Join the Marines and volunteer to go overseas to take on Al Qaeda and ISIS. Now you can carry your weapons and you can kill. Problem solved . . .

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#27 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Gaybutton » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:45 am

firecat69 wrote:Big companies are fleeing from any connection to the NRA , including banks, car rental companies, airlines

Companies that have cut ties with the NRA

February 24, 2018

NEW YORK -- The National Rifle Association (NRA) is facing a corporate backlash as companies take a closer look at their investments, co-branding deals and other ties to the gun industry following the latest school massacre. A handful of companies have ended discount programs with the NRA as the group aggressively resists calls for stricter gun control after a gunman killed 17 people at a Florida high school last week.

The moves come as petitions circulated online targeting companies offering discounts to NRA members on its website. #BoycottNRA was trending on Twitter.

Members of the NRA have access to special offers from partner companies on its website, ranging from life insurance to wine clubs. But the insurance company MetLife Inc. discontinued its discount program with the NRA on Friday. Car rental company Hertz and Symantec Corp., the software company that makes Norton Antivirus technology, did the same.

"We have notified the NRA that we are ending the NRA's rental car discount program with Hertz," the company tweeted Friday.

In a statement, Bank of America said it would examine its relationships with gunmakers who manufacture "assault weapons for non-military use."

"We are joining other companies in our industry to examine what we can do to help end the tragedy of mass shootings, and an immediate step we're taking is to engage the limited number of clients we have that manufacture assault weapons for non-military use to understand what they can contribute to this shared responsibility," the statement said.

Here is a list of some of the companies that have cut ties or distanced themselves from the NRA:

* First National Bank of Omaha: The bank announced that it would not renew a co-branded Visa credit-card with the NRA.
* The Hertz Corp.: The rental car company ended its discount program for NRA members.
* MetLife Inc.: The insurer terminated discounts that had been offered to NRA members on the NRA website
* Enterprise Holdings Inc.: The car rental company that also owns Alamo and National cut off discounts for NRA members.
* Symantec Corp.: The software company that makes Norton Antivirus technology ended its discount program with the NRA.
* Chubb Ltd.: The insurer announced it was ending participation in the NRA's gun-owner insurance program, though it provided notice three months ago.
* Best Western: The hotel chain told multiple social media users that it was no longer affiliated with the NRA, though it did not say when that decision was made.
* Wyndham Hotels: The hotel chain told social media users it is no longer affiliated with the NRA without specifying when that decision was made.
* United Airlines: United said in a tweet Saturday it is "is notifying the NRA that we will no longer offer a discounted rate to their annual meeting and we are asking that the NRA remove our information from their website."
* Delta: "Delta is reaching out to the NRA to let them know we will be ending their contract for discounted rates through our group travel program," the company tweeted Saturday. "We will be requesting that the NRA remove our information from their website."
* Avis and Budget Rental Car: The companies said they will no longer provide NRA member discounts, effective March 26.
* TrueCar: The automotive pricing website said on Twitter that it would end its relationship with the NRA on February 28.

In a statement Saturday, the NRA condemned companies who severed ties with the organization.

"Since the tragedy in Parkland, Florida, a number of companies have decided to sever their relationship with the NRA, in an effort to punish our members who are doctors, farmers, law enforcement officers, firefighters, nurses, shop owners and school teachers that live in every American community. We are men and women who represent every American ethnic group, every one of the world's religions and every form of political commitment," it said Saturday.

It continued, "Let it be absolutely clear. The loss of a discount will neither scare nor distract one single NRA member from our mission to stand and defend the individual freedoms that have always made America the greatest nation in the world."

The swiftness of the corporate reaction against the NRA has differed from that of past shootings, including the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre that claimed 26 lives and the killing of 58 people in Las Vegas last fall, said Bob Spitzer, a political scientist at SUNY Cortland and a scholar on gun politics. Spitzer said the reaction was likely a reaction to the student mobilization that followed the Florida shooting, but he said it was too soon tell how significantly it will sway the country's wider gun debate

"If this is as far as it goes, it probably won't have any measurable effect. If other companies continue to (cut ties) it can start to have an adverse public relations effect," Spitzer said. "Usually what happens is that the storm passes, and the NRA counts on that."

Spitzer noted that it was not the first time big business has been pulled into the gun debate. In 2014, Chipotle asked customers not to bring firearms into its stores after gun-rights advocates brought military-style rifles into one of its Texas restaurants. A year earlier, Starbucks Corp. made a similar statement after the Newtown, Connecticut, shooting.

Larry Hutcher, an attorney who specializes in commercial law and litigation, said companies are reacting to a perception that public opinion is shifting on gun regulation. Polls show growing support for gun control measures. A CBS News poll that found nearly two-thirds of Americans support stricter laws on gun sales, including an increasing number of Republicans.

"It makes economic sense to get on the side of the majority of Americans," said Hutcher, co-managing partner of Davidoff Hutcher & Citron LLP.

Earlier this week, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said those advocating for stricter gun control are exploiting the Florida shooting.

"We share a goal of safe schools, safe neighborhoods and a safe country," LaPierre said. "As usual the opportunist wasted not one second to exploit tragedy for political gain. Saul Alinsky would have been proud. The break back speed of calls for more gun control laws and the breathless national media eager to smear the NRA."

President Trump has aligned himself with the NRA, suggesting some teachers could be armed so that they could fire on any attacker. However, Mr. Trump has also called for raising the minimum age for purchasing semi-automatic rifles, a move the NRA opposes.

On Friday, a large Wall Street money management firm said that it wanted to engage with major weapons manufacturers about what comes next.

Blackrock Inc., which manages $6 trillion in assets, has become one of the largest stakeholders gun manufacturers like Sturm Ruger & Co., American Outdoor Brands Corp. and Vista Outdoor Inc. through indirect investments. The money is placed in index funds, so Blackrock cannot sell shares of individual companies within the index. Its fund clients invest in indexes that might contain companies like Ruger.

On Friday, spokesman Ed Sweeney said Blackrock will be "engaging with weapons manufacturers and distributors to understand their response to recent events."

Blackrock, through indirect investments, holds a 16.18 percent stake in Sturm Ruger, an 11.91 percent stake in Vista, and a 10.5 percent stake in American Outdoor, according to the data firm FactSet.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/companies- ... -shooting/

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#28 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Gaybutton » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:46 pm

More companies cutting ties with NRA. Good. I hope every company associated in any way with NRA will join that bandwagon and cut the ties. Maybe some of those politicians will finally get the message and will realize that their sources of money are going to be much more carefully scrutinized. NRA may be a major contributor to political campaigns, but they for sure are not the only major contributors.

These kids really are making a difference, and it's much more than a token difference. And these politicians better wake up and figure out that high school kids nationwide are within just a couple years of voting age eligibility.

NRA has enjoyed a very powerful position for far too many years. I hope that's over.
________________________________________________________________________

Two moving van companies wrote on Twitter on Friday they were severing ties with the N.R.A. Allied Van Lines and North American Van Lines, which share a parent company, Sirva, each said it “no longer has an affiliate relationship with the NRA effective immediately,” and had asked to be removed from its website.

Rental Cars

A spokesman for Avis Budget Group, which owns the car-rental companies Avis and Budget, said on Friday a discount partnership with the N.R.A. would end by March 26.

Hertz said Friday that it was ending its rental car discount program for N.R.A. members.

On Thursday, the car rental companies Alamo, Enterprise and National, which share the parent company Enterprise Holdings, tweeted they would end their discount for N.R.A. members beginning March 26.
Health

The Starkey Hearing Technologies, which focuses on hearing health care, education and support, said on Twitter on Saturday it would not renew its discount program with the N.R.A. The foundation said it would ask the N.R.A. to remove its information from the association’s website.
Insurance

MetLife said in a tweet on Friday it was ending a discount program for N.R.A. members.

Also on Friday, a spokesman for the insurance company Chubb told Reuters it would no longer have a partnership with the N.R.A. on an insurance program called the “NRA Carry Guard.” The spokesman said Chubb had given notice of this change three months ago.
Technology, Information and Security

TrueCar, an automobile pricing and information website, said on Friday it was “ending its car buying service relationship” with the N.R.A. at the end of this month.

The home security company SimpliSafe once offered two months of free monitoring for N.R.A. members but the company said in an email on Saturday that it had “discontinued our existing relationship with the NRA.”

The cybersecurity company Symantec announced on Twitter on Friday that it had ended a discount program with the N.R.A.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/busi ... ycott.html

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#29 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Gaybutton » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:11 pm

One of the things that bothers me is all the attention now being given to following up on "warning signs." Yes, that certainly must be done, but there is only just so much anyone can do.

Another aspect of the problem is the number of shooting incidents where there were no warning signs. Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, is a perfect example of that. As far as I know, until the incident no one had any reason to suspect him of a thing.

That is why I believe the only way to drastically reduce the probability of more similar incidents is to get these assault weapons off the streets. All these gun nuts - I want my assault rifles and I don't want anyone to prevent me from buying them. My question is buy them for what? To do what with them?

One thing about the exalted Second Amendment. It guarantees the right to bear arms. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't say anything about what kind of arms. And since it doesn't, there is nothing constitutional to stand in the way of banning these assault weapons from civilian possession and use.

I would have no objection if the kinds of arms available to civilians are limited to the types of arms that were available at the time the Second Amendment was ratified - 1791.

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#30 Re: Florida High School Shooting and Gun Control

Postby Gaybutton » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:54 am

Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens to Block Tax Cut for Delta Over NRA Split

February 26, 2018

(ATLANTA) — Georgia’s lieutenant governor on Monday threatened to prevent Delta Air Lines from getting a lucrative tax cut after the company ended its discount program with the National Rifle Association.

Republican Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle, president of the state Senate and a leading candidate to succeed Gov. Nathan Deal, tweeted that he would use his position to kill a proposed sales tax exemption on jet fuel.

“I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA,” Cagle tweeted. “Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.”

More than a dozen companies, including Metlife, Hertz, Avis, Enterprise, Best Western, Wyndham and United Airlines have ended NRA partnerships since 17 students and teachers were killed in a school shooting in Florida.

The news comes as Delta, one of the state’s largest employers, appeared close to convincing lawmakers to restore a $50 million sales tax exemption on jet fuel. Headquartered in Atlanta, Delta would be the prime beneficiary of the tax cut.

The proposed exemption had been part of Deal’s larger tax overhaul, which has passed the House and awaits Senate input.

Delta said in a statement that it supports the Second Amendment and its decision “reflects the airline’s neutral status” in the national debate over guns.

The airline also pointed out that last year it withdrew sponsorship from a theater than staged a controversial “Julius Caesar” production that depicted the assassination of a Donald Trump look-alike.

ACLU of Georgia Executive Director Andrea Young criticized Cagle’s move and highlighted Atlanta’s status as a finalist for the location of Amazon’s second U.S. headquarters.

“Politicians should not use taxpayer dollars to impose ideological litmus tests and punish organizations that express views that politicians dislike. Amazon should take note,” Young said in an emailed statement.

http://time.com/5176731/casey-cagle-delta-tax-cut-nra/


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