Groping

fountainhall
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#31 Re: Groping

Postby fountainhall » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:16 pm

There is a lot of discussion about "evidence". I agree. But what do you do in the absence of evidence? And if there is any, how can you trust that evidence? Captain Kirk has it about right, i suggest. But what happened to justice in the O J Simpson case? Here there was evidence aplenty but the defence manipulated the jury by shifting the focus on to race. That case has since been analysed goodness knows how many hundreds/thousands of times with the result that almost all believe implicitly that Simpson was the murderer. But the evidence meant nothing in the court case.

What about the Menendez brothers who brutally murdered their parents? The first juries in their separate trials could not agree and mistrials were declared. At the second, they were found guilty. Yet there was virtually no evidence. They were apprehended only after one of the brothers confessed to his psychotherapist and the other then threatened to kill him if he told anyone.

Then there is the manufactured evidence in many cases. How many men (yes, it's mostly men) have even executed in prison because of tainted and/or falsified evidence, from the innocent Timothy Evans - a case which helped lead to the abolition of capital punishment in Britain - to death row inmates in the USA. Many of the latter have more recently been declared innocent or face retrials thanks to the introduction of DNA testing which would earlier have proved their innocence in their first trials.

Not even evidence makes a case open-and-shut.

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#32 Re: Groping

Postby Gaybutton » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:38 pm

fountainhall wrote:Not even evidence makes a case open-and-shut.

You're citing individual high profile cases. I wouldn't generalize on that basis, but we are we talking about whether those accused of groping really did it or not? I thought we were talking about whether we should simply believe and take the accusers at their word.

I do, by the way, agree with Captain Kirk's point that it's much easier to believe it when several are accusing one person than it is to believe it when just one person is making the accusation, especially when the alleged incident happened decades ago.

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#33 Re: Groping

Postby firecat69 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:47 pm

Although these sexual assaults are important , we are allowing them to take over the news cycle in the USA. The problem with that is the disgraceful Republicans just might get their Billions of tax give away to Donors and Trump, all of whom should be paying more!

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#34 Re: Groping

Postby Up2u » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:44 am

firecat69 wrote:Although these sexual assaults are important , we are allowing them to take over the news cycle in the USA. The problem with that is the disgraceful Republicans just might get their Billions of tax give away to Donors and Trump, all of whom should be paying more!

I have not commented on this thread because by the preponderance of the evidence these men are guilty (only one, Franken, has personally apologized for his behavior). As noted the Liar in Chief hypocritically attacked Franken knowing full well everyone would take the bait and defuse criticism of the proposed tax bills which are perhaps one of the biggest transfers of wealth from the struggling classes to the richest in American society. Trump with the release of the Pussy tapes, which should have ended his campaign, cleverly and timely colluded with WikiLeaks in releasing stolen information on Hillary and the rest is history. He is doing it again. These groping allegations are sickening, should not be tolerated by us but were a reflection of the American workplace hopefully in the past. Let's all remain focused on the confrontation in front of us; a redistribution of wealth, income inequality, wage stagnation, loss of Medicare benefits, Medicaid, SS, etc. Remain focused.

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#35 Re: Groping

Postby fountainhall » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:08 pm

Just from observing them, and in one case some inside knowledge, I have always felt Harvey Goldstein, Kevin Spacey and Donald Trump were slimeballs. Moore also fits that description in my book, as does Clarence Thomas but to a lesser degree. But others accused of groping and other unwanted molestation advances continue to surprise me, the latest being Charlie Rose. Is it because he has for years hosted a serious programme with lengthy news and insightful current affairs that I would not have considered him? He admits many of the allegations.

Charlie Rose has been suspended by CBS News after becoming the latest media figure to be accused of sexual harassment when eight women came forward to describe unwanted advances, including lewd phone calls, parading naked, and groping their breasts, buttocks or genital areas.

The accusations, detailed by the Washington Post, were brought by women who were employees or aspired to work for the host at the Charlie Rose show from the late 1990s to 2011.

According to the report, Rose’s accusers ranged in age from 21 to 37 at the time of the alleged incidents. Three went on the record by name . . . One of the women, Kyle Godfrey-Ryan, a former assistant, recalled at least a dozen instances where Rose walked nude in front of her. He also repeatedly, it is alleged, called Godfrey-Ryan, then aged 21, late at night or early in the morning to describe his fantasies of her swimming naked in the pool at his country house.

In a statement, Rose said he prided himself on being “an advocate for the careers of women with whom I have worked”. But he acknowledged that his behavior toward some employees had been inappropriate.

“It is essential that these women know I hear them and that I deeply apologize for my inappropriate behavior. I am greatly embarrassed. I have behaved insensitively at times, and I accept responsibility for that, though I do not believe that all of these allegations are accurate. I always felt that I was pursuing shared feelings, even though I now realize I was mistaken.”

He continued: “I have learned a great deal as a result of these events, and I hope others will too. All of us, including me, are coming to a newer and deeper recognition of the pain caused by conduct in the past, and have come to a profound new respect for women and their lives” . . . Rose’s longtime producer Yvette Vega acknowledged that she should have done more to protect the young women who worked on the show. “I should have stood up for them,” she said. “I failed. It is crushing. I deeply regret not helping them.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... nt-groping

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#36 Re: Groping

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:52 am

Every day more and more politicians and entertainment industry people are being accused of sexual harassment of one sort or another. I'm beginning to wonder if there are any celebrities who didn't sexually harass anyone.

Meanwhile, sexual harassment is by no means limited to the USA. Thailand is not immune to it.

See: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/ ... l/30332196

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#37 Re: Groping

Postby fountainhall » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:13 am

It seems from that article that being groped here is limited to ladies. I have debated long about this but the time has come to admit it. I was groped! It was on a packed Skytrain near Chidlom about 15 years ago. My front was pressed against a young man's back. Soon I felt a hand on my leg, moving quickly up to my private parts where it lingered long enough to excite me. I want to know where I can report this. It's not that I was against the groping. But the guy was so cute I remain traumatised to this day that he did not leave me his phone number! :o

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#38 Re: Groping

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:23 pm

fountainhall wrote:I remain traumatised to this day that he did not leave me his phone number

Why didn't you ask for it - or give him yours?

Better still, why didn't you get off the Skytrain where he did and then have a nice little chat?

Seems to me he gave you the opportunity - and you missed it.

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#39 Re: Groping

Postby a447 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:27 pm

I spent most of my life being regularly groped on the train. I actually looked forward to catching the train every day. We'd often get off at the next station and either end up at his place or mine.

The difference is, of course, that I was a very willing participant, whereas I think these women dreaded turning up to work every day.

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#40 Re: Groping

Postby fountainhall » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:07 pm

Gaybutton wrote:Seems to me he gave you the opportunity - and you missed it.

I did indeed! Sadly I had to get off at the next stop to change to the Silom Line as I had to meet a client at the Shangri-La hotel. He stayed on the train. If I’d had a name card handy, I would have placed it in his roving hand. But in a packed train and the 30 seconds or so remaining, I could not even have got that out of my briefcase in time.


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