Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

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#431 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby Dodger » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:36 am

firecat69 wrote:Cut the number of Chinese students allowed in the Country and monitor them anytime they are in a position to steal. If that does not work , kick them out permanently.

Unfortunately, that would not stop the theft of U.S. intellectual property. All they have to do (and have been doing) is buy a U.S. product (any product) and reverse engineer it to produce copies. That's exactly what they have been doing for decades now. No student spies needed...those days are long gone - just a sign-on to Amazon.com and a credit card.

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#432 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby firecat69 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:45 am

That is a simplistic view of the problem and in fact the Chinese are not the only ones but they have the most students.
Not only that although some things might be able to be reverse engineered, many things it is near impossible.

I don't think the FBI is spending millions of dollars on this problem if it was as simple as you might like it to be.

And as far as them doing it for decades . Lets face it was not decades ago that they produced nothing but trash out of their factories where workers worked 20 hour days , 7 days a week. It might be 15 years where they began to produce quality products and that happened only after US companies essentially moved their best people to China to teach them how not to make junk. And they learned their lessons well and decided easier to steal the intellectual property and pretend the new product they produced was their design etc.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fbi-direc ... ial-threat

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#433 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:44 am

firecat69 wrote:in fact the Chinese are not the only ones

Firecat69 is right. That's been going on for many years. Pirates are pirates and it's very difficult to stop them - so difficult that very little major effort ever happens. For example, the occasional raids on Thai markets alone almost always result in confiscation of loads of counterfeit brand name products. Meanwhile, the sellers are almost always right back in business within a day or two. It wouldn't surprise me if they buy back what the police confiscate. I never see reports about what the police do with these things after confiscating them.

These counterfeit products are produced somewhere. Maybe China. Maybe other places. But if anyone is looking for counterfeit products, in Thailand it's not exactly difficult to find them.

Even if China, or wherever, makes a serious effort put a stop to it, does anyone truly believe there is any chance of success? With the amount of money to be made, along with the amount of money it would cost to make that effort, and along with money falling into certain corrupt hands, it's not going to happen.

Today "Made in Japan" means you're buying a high quality, reliable product. Years ago, if just about anything was labeled with "Made in Japan," you knew you were buying a piece of crap.

"Lousy Japs. They lost the war, so they send us their junk."
- Walter Matthau (Willy Clark), 'The Sunshine Boys'

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#434 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby Up2u » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:19 am

Universities are institutions of learning and there are large numbers of Chinese students in America and worldwide simply because of the total number of Chinese. Chinese culture like many Asian cultures put a premium on learning and their students excel. Ideas and learning are shared not stolen, the onus should be American industry for protecting their trade secrets(the recent Irian theft) and not giving it away just to enter the vast Chinese market. And yes, it is not only the Chinese that are guilty (tell that to Trump), here is a recent IP “Priority Watch List”: Algeria, Argentina, Chile, China, India, Indonesia, Kuwait, Russia, Thailand, Ukraine, and Venezuela. Let's see Trump get tough with Russia and India. Are we going to penalize the huge numbers of Indian students in American universities? (Buy a 3D printer and theft is simplified for anyone.) I don't believe in punishing students and universities for governments and industry mistakes.

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#435 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:15 pm

Apparently it's not only the Chinese.
______________________________

Iranian hackers stealing and "taking credit" for our work, FBI deputy director says

By Jeff Pegues, CBS News

March 23, 2018

WASHINGTON -- Federal prosecutors slapped criminal charges on nine Iranians Friday. The men are accused of hacking to steal scientific research and other information from more than 300 universities and private companies.

The men, now wanted by the FBI, are allegedly the hackers-for-hire behind a massive cyber theft campaign backed by Iran's most powerful security force, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard. They are charged with stealing proprietary data, academic research and a broad range of intellectual property estimated to be worth more than $3 billion.

"Just in case you were wondering, they are not admiring our work," said FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich. "They're stealing it and they're taking credit for it and they're selling it to others."

The volume of targets is staggering: the email accounts of some 8,000 professors at 320 universities in the United States and abroad, as well as the Department of Labor and the state of Hawaii.

The hackers sent "spear phishing emails," prompting recipients to click on a link that caused their login page to reappear, tricking them into re-entering their credentials, which were then captured by the hackers.

"Academia is notoriously open," said Adam Meyers, vice president of intelligence for cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike. "It becomes a very attractive environment for somebody that's trying to collect information."

Investigators don't want their targets to know how they got the information, so they've left a lot of questions about who was targeted and what specific information was stolen. But it's expected to be highly sensitive because of the specific reference to the involvement of the elite Revolutionary Guard in the scheme.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iranian-ha ... ctor-says/

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#436 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby Dodger » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:03 pm

firecat69 wrote:That is a simplistic view of the problem and in fact the Chinese are not the only ones but they have the most students.
Not only that although some things might be able to be reverse engineered, many things it is near impossible.

There is not a product being produced that cannot be reverse engineered...anywhere from a hula hoop to a formula one race car.

The Chinese students are not visiting the U.S. to support copyright infringement - they're here simply to get a western education. Attempting to steal trade secrets which go into the development of guarded military hardware is what spies are all about. The Chinese aren't flooding the global markets with military hardware - they're flooding the markets with pirated name brand consumer products, all of which have been reverse engineered to look and operate like the real thing.

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#437 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby firecat69 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:19 pm

I could care less about watches and hand bags. It is a non starter for me. Possibly you should take the time to read the links I posted to understand the FBI is not investing 1000's of hours in this fight to stop handbags and watches being duplicated .

They are looking for secrets of much more important things . You cannot reverse engineer an F35 unless you have an F35, so next best thing is to implant Chinese students in companies like Boeing etc to steal much more important secrets then a handbag.

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#438 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby Gaybutton » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:03 pm

firecat69 wrote:so next best thing is to implant Chinese students in companies like Boeing etc to steal much more important secrets then a handbag.

I have four questions about that:

1. Are these companies really so vulnerable to such theft? If so, what are they doing about it?

2. I don't see how Chinese students can be implanted in these companies unless these companies are both hiring them in the first place and also employing them in positions where they could somehow gain access to these secrets and/or would even know where and how to look for them. Are they?

3. Why would this problem be limited to Chinese students? Aren't other countries trying to do the same thing?

4. Does the USA permit foreigners in the country on a student visa to work?

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#439 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby Dodger » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:43 am

firecat69 wrote:I could care less about watches and hand bags.

U.S firms reported that among the losses they incurred as a result of IP rights infringement in China, those associated with copyright infringement were the largest monetarily, accounting for approximately $23.7 billion in losses in 2009. This figure has been escalating exponentially every year since having a negative impact on every single economic metric one could measure and is the biggest problem the U.S. faces with China bar none.

We're not talking about watches and handbags here, we're talking about the pirating of every imaginable product being produced in the U.S.

Many of these companies are ones I visit regularly in the course of my work, and I have never heard of or witnessed a Chinese transfer student working anywhere near these places. Protecting IP is always at the forefront.

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#440 Re: Consequences of Trump's Win - 4

Postby fountainhall » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:02 am

A large fire on the 50th floor of Trump Tower killed one man. An omen? (Sadly Trump was not there at the time.)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43686271


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