Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

fountainhall

Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by fountainhall »

It has now been reported on the BBC that such is the "fury" of the Greater Manchester Police that they will no longer share information about the Manchester bombing with their US counterparts. Apparently the US leakers revealed the name of the bomber even as the Manchester police were determined to keep it confidential until further suspects were identified.
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Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by Undaunted »

Israel has a long standing policy of demolishing the family home of terrorists, I would take it a step further and let it be known that a terrorist that kills innocents shall have his immediate family demolished!
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Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by lvdkeyes »

Taking what a person does out on his/her family is an outrageous thing to do. Are you responsible for what your brothers and/or sisters do?
fountainhall

Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by fountainhall »

Undaunted wrote: I would take it a step further and let it be known that a terrorist that kills innocents shall have his immediate family demolished!
And you expect that would have some sort of deterrent effect, given that those selfish murderers clearly don't give a toss for their own families? A disgraceful idea, indeed!
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Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by Undaunted »

Arab culture encompasses many things, one of which is to put family only after Allah, so If a suicide bomber is happy to give up his on life for heaven, he would think twice if his actions brought death to his own family, insahallah.
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fountainhall

Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by fountainhall »

So I guess you believe that these suicide murderers actually care one whit about the effect on their families after they have blown up themselves and countless others? Frankly I don't believe that for a minute. I cannot see it would be a deterrent to most, if any! After all, many of them had left their families years earlier.

There was a documentary on CNN just a few weeks ago about a 25ish Belgian Islamist who was radicalized in Syria and then returned home to his wife and child. He claimed he would act against the west sooner rather than later. His only desire was to keep getting the socal security payments given to the unemployed in Belgium. After the documentary was completed, he was arrested for beating his wife!
Jun

Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by Jun »

fountainhall wrote: few if any of the recent terrorist attacks in Europe have been perpetrated by recent immigrants
On the other hand, almost all of the recent terrorist atrocities in Europe have been perpetrated by recent immigrants, or the descendants of people who have come here in the last few decades.

They are mostly followers of the same religion as well. All the rivers of blood come from the same source.

Then look at who is behind a lot of the terrorism in the rest of the world.

And we still let refugees in from the middle East & north Africa. This is a huge mistake.
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Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by Gaybutton »

Jun wrote:
fountainhall wrote: few if any of the recent terrorist attacks in Europe have been perpetrated by recent immigrants
On the other hand, almost all of the recent terrorist atrocities in Europe have been perpetrated by recent immigrants, or the descendants of people who have come here in the last few decades.
I believe the main problem that needs to be solved somehow is figuring out, effectively, who to ban from entering and who to watch closely from among those already within the country, and what to do about it for those who fall under suspicion - before they can carry out an attack.

"We're in trouble on this one. Our agents inside the OAS can't pin him down since not even the OAS know who he is. Action Service can't destroy him. They don't know who to destroy. Territorial surveillance can't pick him up at the border because they don't know what he looks like. The gendarmes, all 48,000 of them, can't pursue him. They don't know who to pursue. The police can't arrest him. How can we? We don't know who to arrest."
- Timothy West (Commissioner Berthier), 'The Day of the Jackal - 1973'
fountainhall

Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by fountainhall »

Jun wrote:
fountainhall wrote: few if any of the recent terrorist attacks in Europe have been perpetrated by recent immigrants
On the other hand, almost all of the recent terrorist atrocities in Europe have been perpetrated by recent immigrants, or the descendants of people who have come here in the last few decades.
I believe I am right in saying that the "recent" attacks - i.e. since 9/11 - have almost all been by the descendants, not by "recent" immigrants since 9/11. Therefore blaming the attacks on relatively new immigrants would be incorrect.

On the other hand I totally agree that mass immigration as is now taking place, not only from Syria and the Middle East but all the boatloads crossing the Mediterranean from Africa, does indeed open the door to possible future attacks in the absence of some form of more extreme vetting. I agree with GB's latest post. Vet and check. In the case of the Manchester attack, it now appears that the murderer had in fact been to Syria and not just to Libya. How that was not picked up by the authorities - or if it was picked up, how he was not closely watched after his return - is surely the major concern.
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Re: Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

Post by Gaybutton »

fountainhall wrote:all the boatloads crossing the Mediterranean from Africa, does indeed open the door to possible future attacks
That's the problem, but unfortunate as the refugee situation is, it is still their problem.

I'd like to see each and every one of the people legitimately seeking help to be able to receive it. But in order to help them, I also think it is wrong for other countries to cause themselves and their people to be vulnerable to terrorist attacks, along with other problems, such as the cost, food, housing, medical attention, jobs etc. When Travelerjim talks about jobs coming to America, I don't think he means jobs Americans need being filled instead by refugees.

I also went through it when Jimmy Carter approved the Mariel boatlift and Florida, where I come from, ended up with thousands of refugees from Cuba - all of whom needed food, housing, medical attention, jobs etc. Florida bore the cost. I bitterly resented seeing my taxes pay for these people to get better housing and medical attention than I could afford for myself. I would not be prepared to go through that again.

What I'm trying to say is a country can't help refugees by causing problems for their own people.

Far better vetting is the only solution that makes sense to me if refugees are to be admitted at all. The problem is finding an acceptable means of doing that. Where will refugees be housed while waiting to be vetted? How long of a wait would there be to be vetted and admitted? If it is going to be a wait for years, what about education for the children? Who does the vetting and how is it done? What are the grounds for admission or rejection? Since thousands of refugees are trying to gain admittance to other countries, how can housing them in a means that won't be tantamount to concentration camps be done? What happens to them once they do gain admission to other countries? Who pays for all this?

I don't see how the refugee situation can be dealt with unless questions like those can be acceptably answered, and answered right now - or refugees simply being told, tough luck, we can't help you.

I wish I had solutions and answers. I have none.
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