Suicide Bomb Kills 19 Manchester

[Undaunted]

I also went through it when Jimmy Carter approved the Mariel boatlift and Florida, where I come from, ended up with thousands of refugees from Cuba - all of whom needed food, housing, medical attention, jobs etc. Florida bore the cost. I bitterly resented seeing my taxes pay for these people to get better housing and medical attention than I could afford for myself. I would not be prepared to go through that again.

What you failed to mention regarding the Mariel boatlift was that Castro took this as an opportunity to empty his jails, and insane asylums and ship them to the U.S.

[Gaybutton]

What you failed to mention regarding the Mariel boatlift was that Castro took this as an opportunity to empty his jails, and insane asylums and ship them to the U.S.

That is true - and they were all admitted just as if there was nothing wrong. As far as I know, the only vetting that took place was Castro vetting who to release and get rid of.

[fountainhall]

One example in Asia were the boat people from Vietnam and Cambodia after the US withdrew so quickly in the late 1970s. Vast numbers fled in rickety boats, many being drowned or killed by pirates. As with Iraq refugees now, many had worked for the US and its allies. When I arrived in Hong Kong, the trickle had started to become a flood. Hong Kong was one of the official "ports of first asylum" designated by the United Nations. Soon it was looking after 250,000 refugees - or equal to 5% of the local population at that time - all of them wanting to be sent on the the US and other countries.

Hong Kong's vetting procedures were an example of what can be done. Each individual was vetted and secure camps established, with all the basic necessities of daily life but not enough to persuade many to think about trying to stay longer than necessary. At the same time, western nations which had promised to take large numbers of refugees started reneging on their promises. Although it took time, about 100,000 got fed up waiting and finally decided to to go back to their home countries. Some eventually were integrated into the Hong Kong community and 140,000 were accepted by the US, Australia and other nations. By the time of the return to China in 1997 very few remained.

The cost to Hong Kong was around US$1.1 billion of which the United Nations still owes the Hong Kong government 15%. The system was far from perfect in terms of the refugees' conditions and no doubt there were some abuses. But there was remarkably little violence within the camps and none outside as far as I recall. One key was that refugees were not permitted to integrate into the Hong Kong community. They were kept totally separate for many years before some of the younger ones were permitted to accept part-time jobs outside. Such an action may seem anathema to western governments now, but it is surely one that should be considered. If refugees know that they will have to wait years in a camp before they have a chance of being resettled, perhaps the economic migrants at least may have second thoughts.

[Jun]

I believe I am right in saying that the "recent" attacks - i.e. since 9/11 - have almost all been by the descendants, not by "recent" immigrants since 9/11. Therefore blaming the attacks on relatively new immigrants would be incorrect..

I am not blaming them solely on recent immigrants. The atrocities come from both recent immigrants AND descendents of longer term immigrants. To me the first step response is the same, identify common characteristics & stop ALL further immigration from the problem regions. Or specific religions if necessary.
No need for additional restrictions from other non-problematic sources.

[fountainhall]

To me the first step response is the same, identify common characteristics & stop ALL further immigration from the problem regions. Or specific religions if necessary.
No need for additional restrictions from other non-problematic sources.

Surely the issue then is how to define "problem" and "non-problematic"? Trump has just been in Saudi Arabia which provided 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11. Yet it is not on Trump's problem list. Egypt provided a 9/11 hijacker and a Paris Bataclan terrorist. Not on the problem list. Belgium has supplied several terrorists involved in attacks. Not on a problem list. Indonesia has seen several terrorist attacks linked to Al Qaeda. Not on the US problem list.

If you are going to isolate regions, then the Manchester murderer was a British citizen. The Orlando shooting spree was by an American-born citizen.

No country can isolate itself from the rest of the world. Banning citizens from a few countries is no guarantee of future security. There will always be the odd radicalised idiot or national from another country who could be the next terrorist. Stricter vetting of all immigrants may be the only solution. But that would require substantial increases in immigration staff. With the US State Department budget due to be cut by a massive 30%+, how is that going to be possible?

[Jun]

Trump has a confused mix of strategic support for an ally & security.
I have no such concerns. Almost all the terrorist atrocities are from supporters of the same faith.

I don't care if it's first or second generation, but the first step is to stop any more coming in from Syria, Libiya etc.

There is a whole package of measures that might be adopted for people here.
To improve integration, they should completely remove all religion from schools, so instead of church of England schools & so on, we have mixed schools with no religious services.
Towards the other end of the scale, anyone who is first generation & convicted of in any way supporting terrorism or extremism should be sent straight back home after any jail sentences. If it's major offence, of course they should never leave jail. Any second generation holders of dual passports should get the same treatment.

[fountainhall]

I am all for taking religion out of schools including all religious symbols - crosses, burkhas, headscarves etc.

I also believe all refugee immigrants should have to attend classes to learn the language of their new country and to pass an examination on their comprehension of the language. They have to be far better integrated into their new societies and accept its traditions and norms.

[travelerjim]

The Mayor of London appeared on Good Morning Great Britain
Interviewed by Piers Morgan

http://www.ok.co.uk/tv/good-morning-bri ... terrupting

Incredible ....absolutely incredible.

Tj