Syria

fountainhall

Re: Syria

Post by fountainhall »

readerc54 wrote:About the $90m the US expended. It was over in half-an-hour and had a far greater effect than the hundreds of billions the previous administration spent with nothing to show for it. Cheap at twice the price
On what I wonder did the Obama Administration spend "hundreds of billions" in Syria? Sorry but they didn't! According to the Watson Institute of Brown University and Page 7 of its Paper "US Budgetary Costs of War through 2016", from 2001 to the end of 2016 a total of $12 billion was spent on Syria with a further $9.4 billion requested for 2017.

http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/file ... l%20v2.pdf
readerc54

Re: Syria

Post by readerc54 »

Gimme a break, FH. What's a few hundred billion among friends?
fountainhall

Re: Syria

Post by fountainhall »

A break? So you think there is no difference between $12 billion and hundreds of billions! I'll be happy to pocket that difference, thank you very much!
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Re: Syria

Post by Gaybutton »

I think fountainhall makes a good point. If you're going to post facts, post facts. We can do without alternative facts. Let's leave alternative facts to the fabulous Kellyanne Conway . . .
readerc54

Re: Syria

Post by readerc54 »

Gaybutton wrote:My solution is don't commit acts of war to solve problems that are not your problems in the first place.
Bill Clinton acknowledges that his biggest regret was failing to action in Rwanda because he believes 300,000 could have been saved,

Obama will be having the same misgivings for failing to defend his red line warning to Assad.

Trump made Assad his problem. He could have wrung his hands and worried about unintended consequences until enough doubt crept in and he put the whole idea aside. Too risky, not our fight, let Nikki handle it through the UN.

Trump is many things but timorous is not one of them.
readerc54

Re: Syria

Post by readerc54 »

fountainhall wrote:A break? So you think there is no difference between $12 billion and hundreds of billions! I'll be happy to pocket that difference, thank you very much!
OMG, you actually mean there IS a difference?
Now do you require that in cash or will you accept a check?
Gaybutton wrote:If you're going to post facts, post facts
Facts? This is opinion central here. But it's occasionally entertaining, too. Enjoying it immensely.
fountainhall

Re: Syria

Post by fountainhall »

readerc54 wrote:Obama will be having the same misgivings for failing to defend his red line warning to Assad.
Since we are recalling facts!, let's remember some more. Obama had in fact decided to undertake military strikes against Syria and proposed just such actions. He was totally screwed by Congress, some of whose members felt his plans did not go far enough and others felt it was too much.
“I’m prepared to give that order,” Mr. Obama said in a hurriedly organized appearance in the Rose Garden as American destroyers armed with Tomahawk missiles waited in the Mediterranean Sea. “But having made my decision as commander in chief based on what I am convinced is our national security interests, I’m also mindful that I’m the president of the world’s oldest constitutional democracy . . ."

“One constituent said to me: ‘It is horrendous that these children were killed, but they are being killed in other ways also. What’s the difference?’ ” said Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine.

In making his request (to Congress), Mr. Obama argued more forcefully than he ever had for military action against Syria, echoing some of the moral outrage expressed by Secretary of State John Kerry a day earlier. “What message will we send if a dictator can gas hundreds of children to death in plain sight and pay no price?” the president asked.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/world ... syria.html

End result? You can get away with one or two strikes without Congressional approval. But unless Congress is quickly on your side and prepared to vote for military action, a President is stuck! And without allies helping out, he can get bogged down in a nasty situation as had happened when Obama authorised strikes against Libya but allies like Britain could not get parliamentary approval to join in.

Nothing is simple - in love or war! And the Syrian conflict is a minefield with mostly quite ghastly outcomes.

Oh, a bank draft would be preferable. At least that would have been paid in advance and I'd be sure of getting any funds at all :lol:
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Re: Syria

Post by Gaybutton »

readerc54 wrote:
Gaybutton wrote:If you're going to post facts, post facts
Facts? This is opinion central here.
Yes, but there is a big difference between expressing an opinion and presenting an opinion as if it were fact. I always use phrases such as "I think" or "In my opinion" or "I have a feeling" to make it clear I am expressing my opinion. I suggest doing the same.
readerc54

Re: Syria

Post by readerc54 »

Gaybutton wrote:I always use phrases such as "I think" or "In my opinion" or "I have a feeling" to make it clear I am expressing my opinion. I suggest doing the same.
Always?

But your point is taken. Hundreds of billions was hyperbolic.

fountainhall wrote:“I’m prepared to give that order,” Mr. Obama said in a hurriedly organized appearance in the Rose Garden as American destroyers armed with Tomahawk missiles waited in the Mediterranean Sea. “But having made my decision as commander in chief based on what I am convinced is our national security interests, I’m also mindful that I’m the president of the world’s oldest constitutional democracy . . ."

Nothing is simple - in love or war! And the Syrian conflict is a minefield with mostly quite ghastly outcomes.
Obama used it as an excuse. That's like saying I was gonna fight that bully buy my mom wouldn't let go out. It was his out as he knew it would be. Presidents don't go before congress without knowing they have the votes. The process is known as vote counting and only fools ignore it. Obama was no fool but he needed the outcome as cover so he could blame congress for tying his hands. And when he finishers the book he's working on, he may even resort to the old "love and war" analogy. Obama wanted to look strong but he also wanted to avoid further involvement. He orchestrated an elaborate ruse that only a politician could fully appreciate.

Trump acted within a couple of days of the incident without going to a fractured congress because his executive powers allow it. Maybe he should ask any Monday morning quarterbacks if they'd like him to take the missiles back. We already know how the sarin victims would vote. That's something only a leader could fully appreciate.
fountainhall wrote:Oh, a bank draft would be preferable.
Great! Will meet you at Winner Boys tomorrow night at 9. I'm easy to spot. Just look for the older, heavyweight guy with the lecherous expression.
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Re: Syria

Post by Gaybutton »

readerc54 wrote:
Gaybutton wrote:I always use phrases such as "I think" or "In my opinion" or "I have a feeling" to make it clear I am expressing my opinion.
Always?
Chorus: "What, never?"
Captain Corcoran: "No, never."
Chorus: "What neverrrrrr?"
Captain Corcoran: "Well, hardly everrrrrr."
- H.M.S. Pinafore


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