UFOs

[RichLB]

Well, here goes any credibility I might have had. I confess I am a believer in the UFO phenomena. I don't commit to what they are, but, to me, there are clearly phenomena whizzing around and it is equally clear, to me, that governments are doing their best to debunk and deny them.

Yesterday Fox News (yeah,I know, not the most reputable of sources!!) announced a press conference from several high ranking military officers who have elected to defy orders to remain silent. Today, the conference was held and 9 officers met with the press, presented documents and claimed there were 120 other like military men ready to confirm what they were reporting. They said that for several years craft have been buzzing around US and British nuclear bases. They went on to say that when efforts were made to fire cruise missiles at them, all electronic firing mechanisms failed in every instance. I don't know what else they said because Fox only showed a few minutes of the conference. Does anyone know any more about this? Or has anyone actually see a UFO?

[lvdkeyes]

I believe there are things that people have seen that haven't been identified. Whether or not they are space ships, I don't know, nor would I even venture a guess.

[Gaybutton]

At RichLB's suggestion, I Googled "Phoenix Lights." I had not known about this before. I'm probably as skeptical as it gets and until I see UFOs for myself, I remain unconvinced. I acknowledge there are plenty of UFO sightings that are credible even to me, but I bear in mind that UFO means Unidentified Flying Object, with emphasis on unidentified. Unidentified doesn't convince me that whatever is being seen, it necessarily must be visitors from other worlds. I might be better at accepting it as fact once the term identified can be applied, with irrefutable supporting evidence that the scientific community announces as fact.

Nevertheless, I found the following very interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

[RichLB]

I am curious what additional evidence would be necessary to convince a skeptic beyond one landing on the White House lawn and little green men emerging to chat with the President. Thousands of reputable witnesses (pilots, police, military personnel, the Governor of Arizona, and even Jimmy Carter have said they have seen such objects. In addition, there is physical evidence from so called crash sights and even artifacts which defy scientific identification. Radar data has also accompanied many eye witness reports. And coupled with all this is the cloak of secrecy which has enveloped most of the incidents - witnesses have been told to remain silent, pilots have been threatened with being fired should they speak out, and police and military have also been warned to not speak out. I am also curious why, if there is nothing to the phenomena, are government documents of inquiry either classified or, when released, full of blanked out text?

[Gaybutton]

Thousands of reputable witnesses (pilots, police, military personnel, the Governor of Arizona, and even Jimmy Carter have said they have seen such objects.

I am also curious why, if there is nothing to the phenomena, are government documents of inquiry either classified or, when released, full of blanked out text?

That's the point. I don't dispute that they've seen objects. I don't even dispute that what they saw were UFOs. Of course they were UFOs because nobody knows for sure what they saw. That's why those objects are unidentified. Whatever they are, until the scientific community as a whole agrees to what those objects are, then that still doesn't mean they are of alien world origin.

Government documents. Blanked out. Classified. Oddly enough, there are governments in this world and places for UFOs to go besides just the United States. Do you believe there is a secret agreement among every government in the world, including North Korea, that if any such objects are discovered, they're all going to keep it a big secret? Maybe a few other governments don't quite see it our way.

Again, asking why the documents are held secret or full of blanks when released doesn't necessarily mean aliens from other worlds. To me, it's just as logical to ask why, 47 years later, many documents associated with the Kennedy assassination are still classified. I don't know why, but the fact that I don't know why doesn't mean that a Klingon was the shooter from behind the grassy knoll.

And what's wrong with the idea of those little green men landing on the White House lawn? Why not? I have yet to see anything that even begins to satisfy me that alien beings with far greater technology than our own, somehow managed to find us, did whatever they did to build spacecraft capable of either exceeding or circumventing the speed of light, traveled all the way here from God knows where, and then when they got here didn't land somewhere and make themselves known. Even if it was "unmanned" spacecraft, I would think they would at least send down some sort of tangible, irrefutable signal that it's them, or land a probe, or something. Even at our level of technology, we manage to do it on other planets. Why can't they, or better still, why won't they? Would their curiosity be that much different from our own? If we ever discover proof of life elsewhere, especially if it's somewhere accessible within the limits of our current technology, the first thing we'd do would be to try to explore it in depth. And if it turned out to be intelligent life, we would certainly try to make contact. If you want a "why" question, then for me the real "why" would be why aren't they doing the same thing?

I think it's human nature to try to come up with something to try to explain what we don't understand, even if we have to just make it up. I see us doing exactly the same as the ancient civilizations did. We see things and find things we can't explain, therefore it must be UFOs from other worlds. The ancients saw things they couldn't explain, so we ended up with religion. I don't see a significant difference. I wish I did. I would love to be able to feel convinced. I am hoping to live long enough to know, absolutely know, life exists elsewhere.

I don't recall ever seeing an unidentified flying object myself, but once I saw an unidentified floating object. I couldn't figure out what it was. Turned out to be a turd . . .

[windwalker]

I am convinced that there are alien lifeforms throughout the Universe and many are intelligent. But they are not flying around in saucers or space craft or lights as seen over Phoenix. People believe in ghosts, toothfairy, paranormal, etc and it is all nonsense. If people can believe in Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Benny Hin and their ilk, they will believe in anything no matter how absurd. People want to believe in the unbelievable.

[thaiworthy]

I am convinced that there are alien lifeforms throughout the Universe and many are intelligent. But they are not flying around in saucers or space craft or lights as seen over Phoenix. People believe in ghosts, toothfairy, paranormal, etc and it is all nonsense. If people can believe in Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Benny Hin and their ilk, they will believe in anything no matter how absurd. People want to believe in the unbelievable.

I agree with Windwalker. We believe what we want to believe, be it religion or flying saucers. I don't think aliens built the pyramids or any other wonders of the world.

The film "Day The Earth Stood Still" was a message film. I don't think aliens have any messages for us. They'd be just as curious about us as we'd be about them. I also don't think they're listening to our radio broadcasts either. Not that it isn't possible, it's just incredibly unlikely. I don't think they'll popup like gophers one day, but that's what we'd like to think. The same imagination that led us to build those pyramids also allows us to think that marsh gas is going to take over the world.

Gort, clatu mirada nicto. Which means "You shouldn't have had that salami sandwich last night, it's giving you nightmares." (Loosely translated.)

[Rogie]

I've been interested in UFO's on and off for years. Never seen one though.

I would describe myself as genuinely undecided, but veering towards the sceptical.

A few years ago I read two books on the subject, one after the other. The first one convinced me they existed and the second one convinced me they didn't. I concluded the way information is presented is what matters. Information skillfully presented can be very persuasive.

(And being precise, as Gaybutton was in his post, when I use the term UFO it is synonymous with 'alien life form' or alien craft whether flown by an actual alien or just built by an alien civilisation on the other side of the galaxy)

[Bob]

As GB noted, they call them "unidentified" for a reason....they don't know what they are let alone where they came from. There have been many times where the so called UFOs have been proven simply to be natural phenomena, misreadings by radar, etc. There hasn't been a single case of anyone proving that there is anything "alien" about any of these phenomena.

Given people historically have had the tendency to believe the dumbest damn things that have never been proved (i.e., ghosts, goblins, heaven and hell, that the Holy Ghost actually "did" Mary, that Sarah Palin does have a brain, and that Fox News is actually "fair and balanced), I'm a skeptic. I don't believe anything that doesn't have some basis in logic or that can be scientifically explained. And, no, thunder is not a god....it's just some ogre up there in the sky that occasionally groans when he has a stomach ache.

[windwalker]

I may not agree with many things GB says but he sure is right about UFOs. Could not agree with him more.
But I have seen a UFO. Yes, it was in daytime, high in the sky, silver in color, circular/disc/spherical in shape, and motionless. It was at some distance and I could not discern anything else. Probably a balloon or blimp?

I recall a report by a veteran pilot who saw a UFO while in flight. He was absolutely convinced it was a flying saucer or alien aircraft and nothing could convince him otherwise until his airplane and the alien craft shifted positions. It was just another plane with the sun shining on it.

I don't discount the possibility than an advanced civilization could send an expedition to examine life on other solar systems throughout the galaxy. Perhaps a society that lived long lives of a thousand years rather than 100 human years? But I doubt it. And for sure any expedition to earth would not be flitting around like fireflys in the sky.

And now, who of you believe in alien abductions and those kinky sex exams?