What happened to North Korea?

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Gaybutton
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Re: What happened to North Korea?

Post by Gaybutton »

This is one of the few times I fully agree with Trump and the military. I've been saying all along that I blame China for the current situation. Trump is right. China talks, but does nothing.

I would love to be wrong, but I see far too much handwriting on the wall to believe that negotiations, sanctions, or anything else is going to stop North Korea. I believe there is only one way to put a stop to North Korea - force. That's the only thing they understand.

If the military is capable of it, I hope the next time North Korea tests a missile, the military blasts it out of the sky.
_____________________________________________________________

U.S. flies bombers over Korean peninsula after North Korea missile test

James Pearson and Jack Kim, Reuters

July 30, 2017

SEOUL (Reuters) - The United States flew two supersonic B-1B bombers over the Korean peninsula in a show of force on Sunday after Pyongyang's recent tests of intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM), the U.S. and South Korean Air Forces said.

North Korea said it conducted another successful test of an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) on Friday that proved its ability to strike America's mainland, drawing a sharp warning from U.S. President Donald Trump.

The B-1B flight was in direct response to the missile test and the previous July 3 launch of the "Hwansong-14" rocket, the U.S. statement said. The South Korean air force said the flight was conducted early on Sunday.

The bombers took off from a U.S. air base in Guam, and were joined by Japanese and South Korean fighter jets during the exercise, according to the statement.

"North Korea remains the most urgent threat to regional stability," Pacific Air Forces commander General Terrence J. O'Shaughnessy said in the statement.

"If called upon, we are ready to respond with rapid, lethal, and overwhelming force at a time and place of our choosing".

The U.S. has in the past used overflights of the supersonic B1-B "Lancer" bomber as a show of force in response to North Korean missile or nuclear tests.

North Korean leader Kim Jong Un personally supervised the midnight test launch of the missile on Friday night and said it was a "stern warning" for the United States that it would not be safe from destruction if it tries to attack, the North's official KCNA news agency said.

North Korea's state television broadcast pictures of the launch, showing the missile lifting off in a fiery blast in darkness and Kim cheering with military aides.

China, the North's main ally, said it opposed North Korea's missile launches, which it said violate United Nations Security Council resolutions designed to curb Pyongyang's banned nuclear and missile programs.

"At the same time, China hopes all parties act with caution, to prevent tensions from continuing to escalate," China's foreign ministry said in a statement on Saturday.

Trump "Very Disappointed in China"

However, Trump said he was "very disappointed in China".

In a message on Twitter, he said: "Our foolish past leaders have allowed them to make hundreds of billions of dollars a year in trade, yet..."

"...they do NOTHING for us with North Korea, just talk. We will no longer allow this to continue. China could easily solve this problem!" he said in a subsequent tweet.

The Hwasong-14, named after the Korean word for Mars, reached an altitude of 3,724.9 km (2,314.6 miles) and flew 998 km (620 miles)for 47 minutes and 12 seconds before landing in the waters off the Korean peninsula's east coast, KCNA said.

Western experts said calculations based on that flight data and estimates from the U.S., Japanese and South Korean militaries showed the missile could have been capable of going as far into the United States as Denver and Chicago.

David Wright of the U.S.-based Union of Concerned Scientists wrote in a blog post that if it had flown on a standard trajectory, the missile would have had a range of 10,400 km (6,500 miles).

North Korea said on Sunday it had been forced to develop long-range missiles and nuclear weapons because of hostile intent by "American imperialist beasts" looking for another chance to invade the country.

"In case the U.S. fails to come to its own senses and continues to resort to military adventure and 'tough sanctions', the DPRK will respond with its resolute act of justice as already declared," its foreign ministry said in a statement.

DPRK is short for the North's formal name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. It did not specify what action it would take.

The missile test came a day after the U.S. Senate approved a package of sanctions on North Korea, Russia and Iran.

The foreign ministers of South Korea, Japan and the United States agreed to step up pressure on Pyongyang and to push for a stronger U.N. Security Council sanctions resolution.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-north ... SKBN1AD1ZB
fountainhall

Re: What happened to North Korea?

Post by fountainhall »

Gaybutton wrote:I've been saying all along that I blame China for the current situation.
People can blame China all they want. As I've said, no one nation created the present mess and no one nation can solve it. China on its own certainly won't. It is just not in their interest - and they are a helluva lot closer to North Korean nukes than the USA. Wishful thinking and angry tweeting do nothing when it comes to international diplomacy. So many people too easily forget that China thinks decades ahead of the rest of the major powers. It responds to quiet, behind-the-scenes, confidential diplomacy. The one person in the Trump administration who knows Asia and China better than anyone is Jon Huntsman. Why Trump posted him to Russia instead of China at such a crucial time is one of many mysteries.
fountainhall

Re: What happened to North Korea?

Post by fountainhall »

I urge everyone interested in what might happen in North Korea to read this long article in the present issue of The Atlantic magazine. It discusses in considerable detail four options all of which posters have touched on above - Prevention; Turning the Screws; Decapitation; Acceptance.

It analyses what the US would have to do in preparing for a first strike and reminds readers what and how long it all took to get the forces in position and ready to strike Iraq. The signals were obvious for many weeks! It also goes into detail about how Kim would be likely to react. And it reminds readers that it is not just nukes and missiles which Kim will have at the ready. He has a mass of the worst kind of chemical weapons.
North Korea is a forbidding, mountainous place, its terrain perfect for hiding and securing things. Ever since 1953, the country’s security and the survival of the Kim dynasty have relied on military stalemate. Resisting the American threat—surviving a first strike with the ability to respond—has been a cornerstone of the country’s military strategy for three generations.

And with only a few of its worst weapons, North Korea could, probably within hours, kill millions. This means an American first strike would likely trigger one of the worst mass killings in human history. In 2005, Sam Gardiner, a retired U.S. Air Force colonel who specialized in conducting war games at the National War College, estimated that the use of sarin gas alone would produce 1 million casualties. Gardiner now says, in light of what we have learned from gas attacks on civilians in Syria, that the number would likely be three to five times greater. And today North Korea has an even wider array of chemical and biological weapons than it did 12 years ago—the recent assassination of Kim’s half brother, Kim Jong Nam, demonstrated the potency of at least one compound, the nerve agent VX. The Kim regime is believed to have biological weapons including anthrax, botulism, hemorrhagic fever, plague, smallpox, typhoid, and yellow fever. And it has missiles capable of reaching Tokyo, a metropolitan area of nearly 38 million. In other words, any effort to crush North Korea flirts not just with heavy losses, but with one of the greatest catastrophes in human history.

Kim would bear the greatest share of responsibility for such a catastrophe, but for the U.S. to force his hand with a first strike, to do so without severe provocation or an immediate and dire threat, would be not only foolhardy but morally indefensible. That this decision now rests with Donald Trump, who has not shown abundant capacity for moral judgment, is not reassuring.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... th/528717/
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Re: What happened to North Korea?

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I disagree both with your take on China and the article you posted. I've said the USA should only make a preemptive strike if there is no other choice and can also be certain North Korea's ability to launch such an attack can be destroyed before they can carry out that kind of attack.

I don't believe North Korea would actually launch an attack against South Korea unless they want their entire country to be destroyed. If they do launch that kind of attack, what do they think will happen next? Whatever North Korea might do, with all their bluster, I believe doing something that would spell their own doom would be out of the question for them.

The problem is - what if that's wrong and North Korea really would launch such an attack against South Korea? The decision that would have to be made regarding a preemptive strike would be whether it is better that they attack South Korea with conventional weapons or should the world sit around and wait for them to be able to launch such an attack with nuclear weapons? And who says South Korea is defenseless against North Korea?

Nobody, probably not even the North Koreans, can really know what they would do until the moment arises.

My position is North Korea cannot be permitted to gain nuclear attack capability and I believe the only way to stop them will be the use of military force. I believe no matter what else is tried, it is inevitable that sooner or later military force is going to be used.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.
Jun

Re: What happened to North Korea?

Post by Jun »

1 I would like to think the CIA and their counterparts have been working on infiltrating the North Korean regime so that an quiet assassination could be arranged. Or find some way of figuring out where he resides & blow the whole lot up.

2 Using every form of technology possible to show the North Koreans what life is like in South Korea would be good preparation for a war. Brainwashing or not, I suspect most North Koreans would be rushing to surrender as fast as they could if they understood how much better life is in the South.

3 I see little point in dialogue with fat Kim. If he wanted to run a sensible quiet little dictatorship for his own gain, he could have a great lifestyle without any threat from the US. As it is, their military projects & rhetoric seem to increase the risk of some form of serious retaliation from the US. There is no logic in his stance.
firecat69

Re: What happened to North Korea?

Post by firecat69 »

fountainhall wrote: Kim would bear the greatest share of responsibility for such a catastrophe, but for the U.S. to force his hand with a first strike, to do so without severe provocation or an immediate and dire threat, would be not only foolhardy but morally indefensible. That this decision now rests with Donald Trump, who has not shown abundant capacity for moral judgment, is not reassuring.
Good read and all points that have been made for years . In the end the last 2 paragraphs that really encapsulate the only logical decision. Accept the facts and learn to deal with them. Kim is not likely to make a decision that would end in his destruction .
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Re: What happened to North Korea?

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firecat69 wrote:In the end the last 2 paragraphs that really encapsulate the only logical decision. Accept the facts and learn to deal with them.
I disagree. I don't see the logic in that at all. Let a rogue country, defying the United Nations and overtly threatening the USA or anywhere else they decide to try to bully, force people to have to live under a nuclear umbrella and just hope they never decide to actually launch a nuclear attack? Not only does that allow a country that already has a history of overt aggression to become even more aggressive, but it sets a precedent that would allow any future rogue nation to get away with doing the same thing.

Didn't the world learn anything from the Munich Crisis - that appeasement only makes the aggressor more aggressive?

Once North Korea has nuclear weapon capability, what's to stop them, for example, from selling nuclear weapons to ISIS or any other terrorist organization?

No thank you. I, for one, don't want to have to live like that and Trump would have my full support if he decides to take out North Korea's nuclear war capability once and for all.

Some people try to compare the current situation to the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. While negotiation finally worked, Kennedy's plan was, if negotiation failed, was to take out the missiles one way or another, before they became operational. I believe the USA, even if it has to act unilaterally, needs to do the same thing - if nothing else works, put a stop to North Korea before their nuclear war capability becomes operational.
firecat69

Re: What happened to North Korea?

Post by firecat69 »

The best minds for 25 years have decided is there no way to stop them without possibly millions dying. China will never be on our side no matter how many chocolate cakes Trump serves them. Plus they already have the nuclear material. That is over and they can sell that to terrorist groups anytime they want along withIran, Pakistan , Russia etc . Trying to compare this to Cuba is just plain ridiculous . Those missiles would have been 20 seconds away from us. Once a missile is launched towards us we could obliterate them before that missile reached the USA if it ever did.

Don't you think Kim knows that? The Korean War was a disaster in many ways and a warning of just what N Korean troops are capable of. For the most part the peace has held for 65 years . If there was another non nuclear war , the US Troops in S Korea would all die along with millions of S Koreans .

The US cannot make that kind of decision unilaterally and if they did much of Asia would be lost to China.

We have an idiot in the White House who thinks he can tweet commands to the military. I'm glad I don't have to worry about kids and grand kids , but of course 90% of the US population is oblivious to all that is going on.
travelerjim

Re: What happened to North Korea?

Post by travelerjim »

Hmm... I think our very own Gaybutton has more battle stars from the many years of running this forum....
Or is it battle scars ???
Lol

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Re: What happened to North Korea?

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travelerjim wrote:Hmm... I think our very own Gaybutton has more battle stars from the many years of running this forum....
Or is it battle scars ???
A little of both . . .
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