English

[RichLB]

I sure don't want to argue that well written prose is far preferable to clumsy inputs. But it may be that the assumption that grammatical errors and punctuation goofs are always the result of laziness is wrong. I think we'd all be surprised how many people simply don't know the rules of English. They may not be highly educated or not written anything for years. I'd rather suffer through deciphering "their, they're, and there" errors (and others) than have them intimidated from posting at all. (I'm laughing because I don't think the phrase, "intimidated from" is correct, but can't think of how to write it correctly.) Anyway, let's be sure that our prodding for correct English usage doesn't become so strident that it frightens people from contributing.

[fountainhall]

In the light of the comments made above, for some months I have been a little confused. Back at the end of September, I made a rather light-hearted comment about the posting style of one poster. I started the ball rolling in response to the following post by lmtu -

Re: do you think you are sexy
by ‪let me tell u » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:11 pm

I can tell you better. A friend said there is a fabulous new guy in TOY BOYS, which can be Pattaya best kept secret. I always look in because I have been going there for many years and had some of the best there is from there. It's hit and miss like most, but when it's good it is way above the rest. On this occasion I went to off this stunner No, 39. When I got there with anticipation and excitement, indeed this amazing young guy came in., I said wow you look AMAZING. How old you? He looked so young. He said yes my birthday last week. I’m 18 now. I said I'll off you. He was Thai/Chinese, from Chiang Mai. Well, I was so proud he was head turning stunning and the heads were turning you could see.

That is a post with generally a very good use of punctuation. I responded

by ‪fountainhall » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:03 am

lmtu, I am curious. I enjoy a lot of your posts, but many are quite difficult to decipher because you often have long paragraphs with only the odd comma here and there, rarely a full-stop. Yet this post above shows you have an excellent command of grammar and punctuation. As I say, just curious.

Other posters entered into the discussion. The main thrust went like this – (for the record, I have omitted one or two posts and shortened others – I believe I have not altered the sense in any way through such editing):

by ‪Gaybutton » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:20 pm

There are several people who post here with postings filled with spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes. I often wonder if more than a few people ever proofread before hitting the 'submit' button . . .

by ‪fountainhall » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:40 pm

But I still find it interesting that the punctuation in the majority of lmtu's posts is rudimentary at best (which I am not complaining about, by the way); yet the most recent post is pretty near perfect. There surely has to be a reason more than just a sudden decision to use the Edit button.

by thaiworthy » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:41 pm

There is more to this than meets the eye. It is indeed interesting. Maybe he hired a stenograoher? I wonder if this is a job for the Gaybutton Detective Agency. Nah, things do go bump in the night, even in the virtual world.

by ‪Gaybutton » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:13 pm

Enough of that, please. If anyone wishes to discuss or gossip about LMTU or any other board members, feel free to contact each other by PM, contact him by PM, or better still, leave him alone. I'm not going to have any board members subjected to it for any reason. You're on the wrong board for those kinds of posts and I'm going to delete any more of it.

From being a pleasant and civilised discussion about the use of English in posts and a more or less general agreement that some posters could do more editing prior to posting, suddenly it descended into an issue about gossip. I never understood what it was in my or thaiworthy’s posts that made GB do what seemed like a U-turn. Is there something there I missed? There surely has to be a reason why a long-established poster suddenly – and for, from what I can see, virtually the only time – completely changes his posting style! I’d have thought, in the light of his comments today, GB would have approved. (Is that an iron fist I see before me . . .? )

[Gaybutton]

Is there something there I missed?

Yes you did, but it's not your fault. When you read the board I can certainly understand why you would assume the posts you see are all that were ever there. What you missed are the posts I had to delete before you ever saw them.

LMTU ends up attacked, whether overtly, whether lightly, or whether by innuendo no matter where he goes to post. Whether it is his own fault or not, I won't put up with seeing anyone attacked on this board. There have been times when I went into his posts and translated them into English. There have also been times when I can't figure out what he is trying to say. I don't do that very often anymore. I have other things to do and he is a grown man, perfectly capable of proofreading and correcting his own posts. After all, he taught English didn't he . . . ? Best in his class, as I recall.

I will say, however, I sometimes go into posts written by him and others, but only to correct misspellings, along with capitalization, grammar, and punctuation mistakes. I also do that in some posts in which people still can't figure out how to make a quote. Again, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, but I never change or otherwise alter what anyone wrote other than to correct those kinds of mistakes.

On rare occasions I have to edit out portions of someone's post, but when I do, that person receives a PM explaining why. For example, the last time I did that was a post in which the person had named a bar and accused it of being a pedophile bar. That is a clear rule violation and also sets me up for a nice libel lawsuit. Again, other than things like that I leave people's posts as they wrote them.

There have been many times when I wanted to write a post, virtually word-for-word, the same as lvdkeyes's original post on this topic, but never did. But since he opened the door for me, now I feel comfortable about saying my piece.

One last thing: I'm very often accused of being inconsistent and/or hypocritical. Sometimes I feel as long as people find me guilty of that, once in awhile I might as well at least commit the crime . . .

[fountainhall]

Many thanks for taking the time to explain. Now I fully understand!

[Bob]

After all, he taught English didn't he . . . ?

Conversational or writing? You do have the right remain to silent, anything you write may be used against you in the court of internet opinion, and you do have the right to be represented by a grammarian (and, if you can't afford one, let me tell you we've got somebody in mind for you....).

[thaiworthy]

After all, he taught English didn't he . . . ?

Conversational or writing? You do have the right remain to silent, anything you write may be used against you in the court of internet opinion, and you do have the right to be represented by a grammarian (and, if you can't afford one, let me tell you we've got somebody in mind for you....).

Very witty and appropriate, Bob. Where is this Court of Internet Opinion? I think I may have been convicted, sentenced and executed at least 3 times already! Next time, can you represent me? I hope you can work on a sliding scale, as I commit this crime quite often myself here!

[Bob]

Where is this Court of Internet Opinion?.......... Next time, can you represent me?

I think I've earned about 10 years for all the grammar mistakes I've made just in the last year. And now (having learned a fair amount lately how to read and write Thai), I have the privilege of screwing up a second language. And it's so, so, easy (making the mistakes, that is).

[fountainhall]

If someone is taking the time to write something to post, they're writing it for others to read, aren't they? Isn't that worth taking an extra moment to proofread and correct?

I completely agree about this - and also the need to be flexible, since everyone who posts make mistakes from time to time. But I am curious about some comments on the ELIMINATION thread which I am posting here as requested. I don’t quite understand: if it’s reasonable to ask posters to write in reasonably good English . . .

by ‪Gaybutton » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:04 am

. . . I don't think it's out of line to ask people who are perfectly capable of writing properly to do so

. . . and if just some posts are corrected . . .

by ‪Gaybutton » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:20 am

Every so often I'll go into posts and try to correct the spelling, grammar, and punctuation . . . sometimes I find it necessary to translate LMTU's posts into English

‪
. . . and since lmtu was a teacher of the language . . .

by ‪Gaybutton » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:58 am

Considering that you taught English, I would have expected you to be more vigilant than most people here about making sure to use English correctly. I don't understand why you won't.

. . . how do you reconcile a style of posting that is really pretty difficult to read, let alone understand? It's far less a question of punctuation and grammar, in my view, as it is of comprehension. What happens if more posters decide they want to be similarly eccentric? We already had one troll here whose language style was probably the first pointer to his being a fake.

[Gaybutton]

What happens if more posters decide they want to be similarly eccentric? We already had one troll here whose language style was probably the first pointer to his being a fake.

You might have noticed by now, that particular poster is no longer here. Dang!

As far as the eccentricities of other posters, I deal with those as they happen. If I feel someone is on this board to cause problems, he's not going to last long. As for LMTU, he's a different story. He may be very annoying to some people, but he doesn't strike me as a person who is here to intentionally cause problems. Sometimes he gets it wrong, and only rarely will admit it, but most of the time the information he posts is correct and valuable. If he wants to include in his posts all about his villa, his manor, his independently wealthy friends, the expensive restaurants, and that sort of thing, let him. I see that as something that would be first on my "Who Cares?" list if I were ever to start one (which I won't. I've got enough to do just keeping up with my "I Don't Get It" list). It's the information that I value. I just ignore the bragging. But he does provide information, good information, which is much more than I can say for those who come here to post as trolls. I think the two most controversial figures on the gay Thailand message boards are LMTU and me.

I'm not going to ban people on the basis that others find them annoying. I'll be banning people on the basis they are posting maliciously and intentionally posting false "information."