Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

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Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

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London (CNN) - Tens of thousands of gay and bisexual men who were convicted of now-abolished sexual offenses in Britain will be posthumously pardoned, the government announced Thursday.

The government proposal will also make it easier for living Britons, convicted years ago of since-decriminalized sexual behavior, to clear their names.

The proposal has been dubbed the "Turing Law" -- named after World War II codebreaker Alan Turing, subject of the 2014 film "The Imitation Game." Turing committed suicide in 1954 after he was subjected to chemical castration as punishment for homosexual activity. In 2013, nearly 60 years later, he received a posthumous royal pardon from Queen Elizabeth II.

Anyone previously convicted of the abolished laws can already apply through the UK's Home Office to have their names cleared and wiped from criminal record checks. But under the new law, the government will automatically pardon living men convicted of historical sexual offenses "who would be innocent of any crime today," Justice Minister Sam Gyimah said in a statement.

"Through pardons and the existing disregard process we will meet our manifesto commitment to put right these wrongs," Gyimah said.
Private homosexual acts for men aged over 21 were decriminalized in England and Wales in 1967. However the law was not changed in Scotland until 1980 or in Northern Ireland until 1982.

'An admission of guilt'

Brighton resident George Montague, who was convicted in 1974 for gross indecency with a man, told CNN he won't accept the government's pardon because "it's an admission of guilt."

Instead, he wants an apology for the way he and many others were treated.

"In my view if you're born only able to love and be in love with another a man -- which means you're gay -- then it can't be a crime. How can that be a crime? It's not fair," Montague said.

"The law didn't apply to heterosexuals -- they could have sex anywhere. But if you were gay and all you did was kiss your boyfriend in public you were convicted."

He said he wouldn't stop fighting until he received an apology from the government.

"We were treated very badly. I can't understand it, even today, that there are so many people who do not understand or accept homosexuality."

Announcement 'welcomed'

Andrew Gilliver from the LGBT Foundation in the UK told CNN that while the government's announcement is welcomed, it's long overdue.
"What's unfortunate is that it's taken this long. Obviously in that time (since the laws were abolished) so many people's lives have been ruined," he said, adding that family relationships and career opportunities were destroyed.

On Friday Parliament is set to debate a bill by MP John Nicolson which proposes a blanket pardon be applied to everyone living so that they don't have to go through the disregard process via the UK's Home Office.

However, the government has said it will not support the Nicolson bill because it "could lead, in some cases, to people claiming to be cleared of offenses that are still crimes."

The government has already rejected several applicants under the current law because the activity was non-consensual or the other person involved was under 16 years old.

Closing a loophole?

Gyimah says he worries the consequences of the Nicolson bill haven't been fully thought through.

"A blanket pardon, without the detailed investigations carried out by the Home Office under the disregard process, could see people guilty of an offense which is still a crime today claiming to be pardoned," he said.

However Paul Twocock of the Stonewall organization, which campaigns for the equality of LGBT people across Britain, said in a statement to CNN that he doesn't agree with the government's interpretation of the proposed bill.

"It explicitly excludes pardoning anyone convicted of offenses that would still be illegal today," he said.

Twocock said the proposed Nicolson bill "closes a loophole which means some gay and bi men who are still alive and living with those convictions still can't have them deleted, despite them being unjust and not illegal today."

Gay rights around the world

In recent years homosexuals around the world have fought to be pardoned for same-sex crimes that have long since been abolished.

Earlier this month Germany announced plans to compensate thousands of men who were convicted under an old law for their sexual preferences, Deutsche Welle reported.

And in New Zealand, lawmakers introduced a petition in July seeking a formal apology and a pardon for those convicted of same-sex acts under laws abolished 30 years ago.

http://us.cnn.com/2016/10/20/europe/gay ... index.html
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Re: Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

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This is a meaningless grand gesture.
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Re: Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

Post by Gaybutton »

lvdkeyes wrote:This is a meaningless grand gesture.
I don't think it is entirely meaningless. At least the government is acknowledging they were wrong. That's better than Japan ever did. To this day the Japanese government has never apologized for Pearl Harbor or Nanking.

I do, however, agree with those who feel a pardon implies something akin to "You committed a crime, but now we forgive you for it." I think it would be more meaningful if the UK government would make an official apology for ever having made homosexuality a crime in the first place.
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Re: Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

Post by lvdkeyes »

My point is, it doesn't mean anything to those people because they are dead.
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Re: Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

Post by Gaybutton »

lvdkeyes wrote:My point is, it doesn't mean anything to those people because they are dead.
I hope it at least means something for their families and friends.
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Re: Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

Post by scottish-guy »

CNN wrote:.... But under the new law, the government will automatically pardon living men convicted of historical sexual offenses "who would be innocent of any crime today," Justice Minister Sam Gyimah said in a statement..
Actually (like a typical Tory politician) he lied in that statement and he knew at the time he was lying

Today the very same Justice Minister shamefully and deliberately sabotaged the proposal (which was tabled by the Scottish National Party, not the UK Govt at all) by talking incessantly until it ran out of time, and the Bill therefore failed.

The effect of the failure is that only dead people will be "pardoned". So after their gross indecency conviction ruining their life and career right up until their death, presumably they're now expected to rest in peace? Perhaps there's even an expectation of groups of gay ghosts and poltergeists getting together, throwing parties, and perhaps putting the willys up each each other :P

Those unfortunate enough to be still alive and criminalised by this discriminatory law, can instead apply to to have their Gross Indeceny conviction "disregarded" but as you will quickly grasp "disregarding" something may turn out to be quite different from having it overturned. Time will tell.

The practicality of a "disregard" is that a person would no longer have to declare the conviction and it would not appear in any criminal record checks for say licenses or employment.

If the record of the conviction is held electronically it's supposed to be deleted but NOT necessarily deleted if it is held on old paper or microfiche records (i.e. before 1995). The fact is a sizable number (in fact possibly most) of convictions for gross indecency are pre-1995 and probably held on paper/microfiche.

Another factor is that thousands of Gross Indecency convictions were/are for sexual acts in public toilets. In very many cases the convictions were gained by enrapment by "pretty police officers" posing as gay men cruising for sex and then arresting anybody who importuned them. That was simply they way the "Vice Squads" operated in those days. The UK Government is unwilling to disregard these convictions on the basis that it is still illegal for anyone to have sex in a public toilet, regardless if they are gay, bi or straight.

Personally I simply dont accept that argument as I strongly believe that the vast majority of straight couples caught in delicto flagrante in a public place (then and now) would simply be told to move on, not arrested, charged, and convicted.

With the failure of the SNP's Bill in the UK Parliament, there is speculation now that a similar bill will be introduced and passed by the Scottish Parliament instead.
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Re: Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

Post by lvdkeyes »

This from Pink News:

The UK government today announced it would pardon men convicted of historical gay sex offences but for many people around the world, the laws are far from history.
The government today announced that thousands of gay and bisexual men who were convicted under historical anti-gay laws will be posthumously pardoned, creating a Turing’s Law.
However, around the world, anti-gay laws originating in Britain aren’t an archaic part of history – they are an archaic part of the present.
Many Commonwealth countries continue to enforce penal codes that were first introduced under the British Empire, and never repealed.
In total 40 out of the 53 Commonwealth member states still criminalise homosexuality – from Barbados to Saint Lucia, Sri Lanka to Tonga.
India’s government has resisted a push to decriminalise homosexuality, after the country’s Supreme Court restored their Colonial-era penal code in 2013.


The Commonwealth Secretary-General, Baroness Scotland. recently said the Commonwealth needs to build a consensus on the issue.
She said: “What we have to accept is that this [decriminalising homosexuality] is something that will depend on consensus.
“We do not have the right or opportunity to force states, but we can start a really good conversation to work with them so they understand the economic issues in relations to human rights and make the change.
“The one thing I have to do is to build consensus and trust and I can hope it will be on the Commonwealth Agenda.”
The UK government recently praised reform in the Seychelles, after it agreed to push forward with plans to repeal the country’s British Colonial-era anti-gay law.
Confirming the move, the Seychelles government had specifically noted advocacy from British diplomats.
scottish-guy

Re: Tens of thousands of UK gays to be posthumously pardoned

Post by scottish-guy »

scottish-guy wrote:......With the failure of the SNP's Bill in the UK Parliament, there is speculation now that a similar bill will be introduced and passed by the Scottish Parliament instead.
As predicted:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-37764566
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