Retirement visa news - and it's not good

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Gaybutton
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#41 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby Gaybutton » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:52 am

traveller123 wrote:I believe it is possible to have a lower sum than 800,000 baht tied up in a savings account coupled with a percentage of 65,000 baht monthly income.

I've never heard of that, but based on current information I would suggest checking with immigration to see if that is even valid, will continue to be valid, and what the minimum amount in a savings account would be acceptable to immigration.

If that turns out to be do-able, please let us know.

Again, as it stands so far, the only thing we know for sure is after January 1 immigration will accept 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least three months prior to the retirement visa expiration date.

If there will be anything else or any variations acceptable, we simply don't have reliable information at this point.

James the First

#42 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby James the First » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:17 am

jason105 wrote:The 800,000 Baht on deposit for 3 months is an effective "deal-breaker" for me, unfortunately. I could, more than likely, make arrangements to have the money in an account in my name but it would tie up funds that could be earning interest elsewhere.

Life is how you look at it. Half full or half empty it is only a glass.

I am confused by your statement. "Rock solid" (That is AA+ these days rather than AAA) corporate bond interest rates are 3.8%. In the Thai savings account you would not earn as much, but if you are maximum earning $900.00 or its equivalent by having that dosh in your interest bearing account in some western haven and paying "at home" tax rates and capital gains on that money so what is the difference? Say you earned $200.00 as an equivalent in a Thai bank account. You present yourself at the correct government office and they will REFUND your withheld 15% tax on your Thai earnings on your savings account guaranteed to one million baht as I said above. So staying here or not staying here hinges on a difference of $650.00 worth of interest? At our age? You would have to endure all the joys of being a forgotten man in your home country. I know for sure I would be a forgotten man in mine. I assure you if you have only been gone five years prices have gone up a lot at home.

I quote only the rock sure corporate bond rate because "securities" offer much higher risk and we all know how low passbook savings rates are everywhere.

Think on this and imagine if (for only $650.00 more in "hands on" money) you could live as well with the same or better quality of life in your home country on your pension plus interest, wherever you are from, if this is true for you, you should return to your home country or another spot. Let's see, Malaysia you and I are illegal, Cambodia has zero quality in it's health care should you need it, Vietnam and Philippines are beaten up by typhoons and floods annually. Where is that magical spot that provides as much as Thailand provides to us? I should think just the cost of leaving would be two years of interest if you fly home coach with standard luggage.

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#43 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby Undaunted » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:11 pm

“If you need to ask how much you cannot afford it”

Hence if you do not want to put 800,000 in a Thai bank account because you can get 3% interest elsewhere vs 1.5%, Thailand is surely not the place for you.
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"

James the First

#44 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby James the First » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:59 pm

This is true and depending upon pre existing conditions a better option than mandatory health insurance. Ecuador for one now insists upon this:

https://www.pacificprime.com/blog/ecuad ... xpats.html

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#45 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby traveller123 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:00 pm

Gaybutton wrote:If that turns out to be do-able, please let us know.

My visa is not due for renewing until March at Surin Immigration, I will ask when I go, but I am guessing they will not be as knowledgeable as Jomtien.

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#46 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby fountainhall » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:38 pm

traveller123 wrote:I believe it is possible to have a lower sum than 800,000 baht tied up in a savings account coupled with a percentage of 65,000 baht monthly income.

This has always been possible - at least under the rules up to now. If Bt. 65K per month is not possible, individuals can combine a lesser monlhly payment in to an account with the balance between this total and Bt. 800K in a saving account. I assume this balance also has to be in the account for 90 days prior to renewal.

Meeting the Financial Requirements for a Retirement Visa:

Financial Requirements are as follows:

Bank Account showing THB 800,000
Monthly income of at least THB 65,000
Combination (Bank Account + Income x 12 = THB 800,000)

http://www.thaiembassy.com/retire/retire.php

Whether this now remains the case, I somehow doubt it - but that's just my read on it.

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#47 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby jason105 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:15 pm

Undaunted wrote:“If you need to ask how much you cannot afford it”

It is true that with the new requirement I would not be able to "afford it" on my own.


James the First wrote:I am confused by your statement.

I would need to get help from my family and it would be their funds that would be impacted by the lowered interest rate.

I will wait and see what the final decision(s) will be once there is a countrywide official announcement (if such a thing exists).
All the best

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#48 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:27 am

jason105 wrote:I will wait and see what the final decision(s) will be

For the time being that's all anyone can do. Not that it means anything, but my common sense gut feeling is immigration will provide alternatives to forcing retirement visa eligibility solely dependent on keeping 800,000 baht in the bank.

Of course we all know that common sense does not always necessarily apply in Thailand, but if they do provide alternatives we just have to wait and see what they will be, when they will come into effect, and what retirement visa applicants have to do to comply.

I think giving up hope and/or making assumptions at this point is premature.

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#49 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby Bob » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:40 am

Attended the meeting yesterday that the CM Consulate hosted regarding the income affidavit issue. While one of the speakers indicated that the "combo" method (bank funds and income adding up to 800k per year) will no longer be an option (which is directly contrary to the Thai Embassy website guidelines), the meeting in general perhaps raised a few more questions than what it answered. Of course, the main issue for those relying on the "income method" is what a given Immigration office(r) will or won't require as proof of that income. Given I'm doubtful that a given officer will be willing (or able?) to interpret various foreign documents (tax returns, 1099's, pension statements, social security statements, or whatever), one can only speculate that eventually (presuming the "income method" stays in force) that perhaps an eventual standard will require the Immigration officer to see a Thai bank book showing the required amount coming into Thailand (but see point #8 below). Another poster of another forum fairly well described the discussion by the presenters and I'll just paste that here:

1. The decision to stop offering income affidavits was made by the State Department in Washington after contacts with Thai Foreign Ministry and Immigration Officials who were unaware of, or unprepared to recognize, the limitations of the income affidavit, despite the disclaimer.

2. There have been contacts at the highest level between the Embassy and Thai Immigration. These contacts will be ongoing at the local level. Earlier today, they met with Chiang Mai Immigration Police Division 5 to go over the upcoming suspension of the affidavit and related issues. Tomorrow they will be in Phuket to talk to Phuket Immigration.

3. Bangkok Immigration and Chiang Mai Immigration both are eager to assist in the transition and to make sure all Immigration Officers understand what to do moving forward.

4. Embassy income-verification letters will no longer be required.

5. Concerning proof of income, the Embassy and CM Consulate will be conducting training sessions to explain the various forms of retirement income US retirees depend on, which are quite different from European national pension systems Thai Immigration is used to.

6. One interesting observation was that they (Thai Immigration) had great difficulty in understanding the non-monthly nature of some income streams that they find unsettling.

7. For specific cases of required proof of income, US citizens should comply with their local Immigration Office guidelines.

8. Among other tidbits, the good news is that they will now accept 1099 and other tax forms, among other types of evidence, since these were explained to them in Chiang Mai, and that income can be paid into either a Thai or foreign bank account. However, the Embassy official opined, in a private conversation after the meeting, that transfers into a Thai bank account is probably what they will end up requiring in the future.

9. The Q&A session raised many of the issues discussed in these forums. Several questions concerning specific cases were answered by attendees with hands-on experience since the Embassy/Consular officials lack said knowledge.

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#50 Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Postby Up2u » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:17 am

If Pattaya Immigration were to accept 1099's(SSA-1099, 1099R) that would be great, a standardized form that all Americans should receive for preparing their IRS 1040 's.


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