Retirement visa news - and it's not good

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Gaybutton
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Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by Gaybutton »

Up2u wrote:If Pattaya Immigration were to accept 1099's(SSA-1099, 1099R) that would be great
Whatever they will accept, I wish they would make up their minds and tell us already. American tax documents may help Americans, but it would also be nice to know what, if anything, they will accept from other nationalities.

I am also curious about what is going on with nationalizes other than USA, UK, Australia, and Denmark. Are other nationalities also going through this or are they picking only on those 4. And if it's only those 4, why?

Whatever alternatives they come up with, if any, I'm expecting plenty of confusion at first - on both sides.

Even once they tell us what they will accept, I'm going to prepare whatever it is, but I'm not going to touch that 800,000 baht until I have the retirement visa renewal in hand, along with convincing assurances - very convincing - from sources I am also convinced truly know what they are talking about, that whatever was accepted will continue to be accepted for renewals from now on.

At least it is beginning to look like they're going to come up with alternatives, but until they do, so far nothing has changed and to date all we know is the embassy affidavits are about to become unacceptable and the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for three months prior to applying for the retirement visa is acceptable.

If anyone knows anything more than that at this point, I'd like you to tell us what you know and how you know it.


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Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by Undaunted »

Like most everything on this thread the post about the meeting in CM by the consulate is “much ado about nothing “.
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"
James the First

Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by James the First »

To myself there is only one question. The 800k can be tapped into for any short term emergency and then topped back up within 30 days of discharge from a hospital without penalty on the "90 days before renewal." Then it is cheap insurance. Imagine if we all had a national insurance premium to pay annually....and we stayed healthy? ;-) We would be furious!

What makes any American document important to a Thai? There is no "one size fits all" because the Thais decide what they want in their country and it does not have to be logical. I don't care to share my IRS forms with anyone in Asia. I don't know how a Brit, Canadian, Aussie, Finlander or others can demonstrate income in a form the Thai would understand. It is too complicated for the Thais to work out and we have to admit this to ourselves. I used to bring over 250,000 baht over quarterly beginning twelve years ago and ending about three years ago when I sold several condos and needed to spend down. I get four free transfers a year from my investments account so I would send my SSI into the investments account. Even so, in a conversation with a small Immigration office three years ago where I have moved they were confused as to why I would not transfer monthly. Then I explained the concept of "free transfer" to the Thai official. He had never heard of it. When "the rubber meets the road" they are not that smart, need to see a photocopy of everything due to lack of imagination, and they are able to comprehend a bank balance and three months of photocopies because IT IS A THAI BANK. Thai schooling does not teach them to be creative or to see nuance. (ie. the absurdity of reasoning: "This farang drove here in a new car they own and own a condo nearby....can he afford to live here? I need to see if he has monthly income!) They have rules handed down from their superiors which they often cannot understand how to implement imho. They fear losing the famous "Thai face." The paperwork even has to look pretty for them. When in doubt "KISS." I presume that anyone with good sense keeps a financial cushion for health care, a car accident or any "emergency." If you have already spent yours on your health, travel or pleasures all the rules cannot be bent around to individual convenience. Plenty of people have spent decades living in Thailand living on little means. Well, that has ended and we have to adapt at least on paper. To wrap one's mind around the unfairness of how a kid on a one year teaching visa in a Thai school "is here legally" being paid 30,000 baht a month verses ourselves will only give a headache, but never a logical answer. So, I have learned to throw logic out the window and concentrate on the simplest path to what they want.

"Waiting to see" is not the same as planning. Having 800K in a bank account, $25,000, is a sane and prudent thing when you might be rushed off to hospital for any emergency. If you die with an unpaid medical bill and no assets you are a drain on the health care system everyone else pays for. Your nonpayment makes it harder on the next farang who is admitted for an emergency. Friends who work in hospitals are amazed that so many Europeans, even on vacation, arrive at a hospital emergency without any means to pay for treatment. I do not blame the Thais for this.
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Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by Gaybutton »

James the First wrote: I don't know how a Brit, Canadian, Aussie, Finlander or others can demonstrate income in a form the Thai would understand. It is too complicated for the Thais to work out and we have to admit this to ourselves.
I'm not so quick to underestimate what Thais can and cannot work out. Thai immigration staff are not just hired off the street, given a uniform, and put to work. They are trained. If new rules for proving income come into being, I don't doubt for a second that immigration officers will be trained to deal with whatever the powers-that-be are willing to accept.

I agree with Undaunted on this one. Now we're speculating when there is still nothing to speculate about. You folks can speculate, decide what Thai immigration officers are capable of, or whatever you want, but to me such speculation is absolutely useless when none of us have any idea what might be happening until it actually happens.

If people want to speculate, you might as well speculate that Thai immigration will simply say, "Awww, to hell with it" and just grant lifetime visas to anyone who wants one - and free of charge too. At this point, that speculation is just as valid as any other . . .
fountainhall

Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by fountainhall »

Granted it’s speculation but there is something else I cannot understand. I believe it has been suggested that a US Income Tax document might serve in lieu of an Embassy letter. But surely if that were the case, it would have to be translated? Apart from its complexity or otherwise, I have not yet come across an Immigration official who can speak much English, let alone read it!

Also, US citizens earning a pension may require a tax document. I believe Brits do not unless their pension earnings are over a certain threshold. And if they hold mutual funds, I expect these are only subject to capital gains on redemption. Who translates that lot in a manner that is acceptable to Immigration?

As for other countries, maybe their rules are as different as their languages. My point being that for Immigration and the Embassies to come up with an acceptable solution ain’t going to be one they can arrive at quickly!

We wait and see!
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Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by Gaybutton »

fountainhall wrote: I believe it has been suggested that . . .
All kinds of things are being suggested. My own speculation is if anything will be accepted in lieu of the 800,000 baht, it will be a letter from a Thai bank plus a Thai bank passbook showing a deposit of at least 65,000 baht per month - at least for starters. That, they can understand.

As you said, we wait and see - which is all we can do.
James the First

Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by James the First »

Gaybutton, I am certainly not going to overestimate what Thais can and cannot work out. I will leave it to you to underestimate. Thais really know it when you owe them money. My experience with Thai Immigration officials is as valid as anyone else's. While I know my next door neighbor who owns a Thai factory and speaks flawless English can fully understand nuance I know a minor Thai government official will not. Further, no military government is likely to be granting lifetime free anything to anyone they do not have to. (I would call that "wild speculation") I am operating opposite to the premise you have created. In other words "it ain't good" is your premise and mine is that it is neither good or bad "it is what it is." You are holding out hope to nervous old men that it might be all right when it could be just as I suggest. In my life I have always tried to over prepare and this habit has rewarded me. I do maintain that without insurance (which is virtually impossible to get if you are 65+) you are living as a real drag on the Thai healthcare system if you do not have assets to cover your bill immediately on hand. That is what the money is for unless you want to see every farang hit by a car taken to a provincial (read third world) hospital. The Thai government and other farangs have a right to side with a uniform simple policy.
Up2u

Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by Up2u »

Gaybutton wrote:
fountainhall wrote: I believe it has been suggested that . . .
All kinds of things are being suggested. My own speculation is if anything will be accepted in lieu of the 800,000 baht, it will be a letter from a Thai bank plus a Thai bank passbook showing a deposit of at least 65,000 baht per month - at least for starters. That, they can understand.

As you said, we wait and see - which is all we can do.
I would agree but with the addition the income must be from outside Thailand (SWIFT transfers, foreign telex transfers). My old method of doing ATM withdrawals and then Thai bank deposits probably won't cut it. Currently you just have to show income of 65k and no requirement to bring it into the country.
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Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by Gaybutton »

James the First wrote:Further, no military government is likely to be granting lifetime free anything to anyone they do not have to. (I would call that "wild speculation")
Are you kidding me? Did you actually think I was being serious?
James the First

Re: Retirement visa news - and it's not good

Post by James the First »

Gaybutton wrote:
James the First wrote:Further, no military government is likely to be granting lifetime free anything to anyone they do not have to. (I would call that "wild speculation")
Are you kidding me? Did you actually think I was being serious?
No, I called it wild speculation.
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