Immigration and money - in a nutshell

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#11 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:56 pm

puan wrote:I plan on sending an email.

I think ACS getting flooded with Emails might be helpful, but bear in mind that the embassy has no control over Thai immigration policies.

I hope, in the interest of fairness, Thai immigration will come up with alternatives by which they will accept proof of the 65,000 baht per month requirement, but even the embassy cannot force them to do so. If Ambassador Davies would step in and get personally involved in talking with Thai immigration authorities, that would certainly help, but I doubt he would do so unless there is enough pressure on him to do it. Without his direct help, I don't foresee anything coming out of the embassy other than these canned "not much we can do" responses.

Thailand's new immigration chief is taking a tough stance on immigration and visa issues. While we may not like it, he is not wrong to do so. But rightly or wrongly, whether or not there will be alternatives and just what they might be will probably rest solely in his hands. His desk is probably where Thailand's immigration buck stops.

I am of the opinion that the current USA administration doesn't really give much of a damn about us expats. We're not exactly a priority. This IAT nonsense convinces me of that, making it unnecessarily difficult for perfectly innocent people to receive their money.

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#12 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby Up2u » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:36 pm

Gaybutton wrote:If Ambassador Davies would step in . . .

There is no Ambassador as Mr. Davies left in September and Trump has not replaced him.

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#13 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby Gaybutton » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:20 pm

Up2u wrote:There is no Ambassador as Mr. Davies left in September and Trump has not replaced him.

Oh well, there goes that idea. I guess he didn't last very long. Somebody must be in charge at the embassy. Do you know who?



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#14 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby Up2u » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:57 am

Gaybutton wrote:Somebody must be in charge at the embassy.

Worth a try....

https://th.usembassy.gov/our-relationsh ... mbassador/

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#15 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby 2lz2p » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:29 pm

puan wrote:
2lz2p wrote:Pat K, the Embassy Liaison (formerly Warden) mentioned to me that the US Embassy probably will not take the matter up again with Thai Immigration until they get several emails from US Citizens

Did Pat K have the name of the individual in the Embassy who supervises the ACS section? I think having a name to directly address the email would be beneficial. I plan on sending an email.

No she didn't provide a name. The email address is acsbkk@state.gov.

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#16 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby 2lz2p » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:30 pm

GB:
I think ACS getting flooded with Emails might be helpful, but bear in mind that the embassy has no control over Thai immigration policies.


Correct, but they can exert influence especially if several of the embassies act in concert as they did a few years ago when Immigration put a 30 day time limit for the validity period of the income letter then cut it to 14 days. Apparently the embassies were flooded with emails/telephone calls from their citizens. They then approached Immigration on why it was a big problem and Immigration HQ then sent out instructions that the letter was good for 6 months. See http://www.pcecnews.com/PCEC-NOTICE-THA ... JUNE-6.pdf for instructions - contains Thai version and English translation.

The USA and British Embassy are telling their citizens that Thai Immigration will accept bank statements (and in the case of USA saying in their FAQ that they would help resolve issues with regional Immigration Offices and in their Fact sheet (last item) that
The U.S. Embassy and Consulate General will work closely with Thai immigration officials during the transition period to minimize any confusion.
, is good reason to contact them when regional Immigration Offices are saying you can't use bank statements. The US Fact sheet also says:
The U.S. Embassy and Consulate General are not required by Thai law to provide an income affidavit template for U.S. citizens to use for Thai visa applications. The periodic acceptance of the affidavit in lieu of actual income evidence has been a matter of informal practice rather than regulation.


In that regard, the regulation Paragraph 2-22 (3) of Police Immigration Orders 327-2557 (requirements) and 138-2557 (documents); effective on August 29, 2014, sets forth requirements for 65k monthly income (order 327-2557) and supporting documents (order 138-2557) do not mention Embassy letters as supporting documents.

In 138-2557, for (3) it states the following for supporting documents: Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or 4.Funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook. "4." is also requirement for 800k.
Police Order 327-2557 English translation: http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Immigrat ... s%20en.pdf

Police Order 138-2557 English Translation http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Immigrat ... s%20en.pdf

Thai version at: http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Immigrat ... s%20th.pdf and http://www.pcecnews.com/permNL/Immigrat ... s%20th.pdf , respectively.

For marriage to a Thai, the financial see Paragraph 2.19 (6) in both Police Orders.

--------------------
So, bringing the problems encountered to the attention of the Embassy and suggesting they ask Thai Immigration HQ to provide instructions to Regional Immigration Offices to confirm what they were told by Thai Immigration which is that bank statements are acceptable in lieu of the Embassy letters may be helpful in getting them to actually do that, especially if many affected expats contact them.

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#17 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby Gaybutton » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:56 am

I received another Email from American Citizens Services today. It said the only information they have regarding proof of income is what they have on their web site, but will post updates if and when further information becomes available.

A friend just renewed his retirement visa in the Bangkok immigration office using the USA embassy proof-of-income statement and they accepted it. Meanwhile the Pattaya immigration man says they won't accept it anymore.

The only idea I'm coming up with is, for now, for the retirement visa take whatever you have that can prove your income to immigration when it's time to renew and see if they'll accept it. But you should also have the 800,000 baht requirement in place in case they won't accept your proof.

I would also still advise renewing your retirement visa at least two weeks before the expiration date in case you end up having to deal with the chaos.

If anyone has a better idea, please let us know.

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#18 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby puan » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:23 am

Gaybutton wrote:I received another Email from American Citizens Services today. It said the only information they have regarding proof of income is what they have on their web site, but will post updates if and when further information becomes available.


I would hope the staff of the American Citizens Services is doing more to urge the Thai Immigration authorities to clarify this mess. I would hope they (as well as their counterparts at other embassies) would be more proactive. Surely if they (the ACS) are honest in drawing their paychecks, they would be in constant contact with Thai Immigration urging them to state what is required now for proof of income. If they are...then tell us. But...call me a cynic. I doubt it. I suspect they are being typically bureaucratic in maintaining a re-active posture.

Yes...you can argue that the "ball" is in Thai Immigration's court and it is. But ACS has an obligation to represent the American expats (as do other embassies for their respective expats) in voicing our concern, confusion, hysteria and frustration caused by a lack of answers to what I regard as a simple answer. If this discussion regarding the validity of the decade plus use of the Income Affidavit statement began in June/July, surely a resolution could have been achieved.

Time for emails to ACS.

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#19 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby Undaunted » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 pm

puan wrote:Time for emails to ACS.

You must be joking. Do you really believe the embassy gives a shit? Lol
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"

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#20 Re: Immigration and money - in a nutshell

Postby puan » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:09 pm

Undaunted wrote:You must be joking, do you really believe the embassy gives a shit. Lol

1. am i joking? ...NO
2. believe the embassy gives a shit? ...NO

As I said..."call me a cynic."


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