Random Thoughts From A Long Term Expat

[Undaunted]

16 years ago after living in Bali I stumbled upon Thailand simply to renew my Indonesian visa and I thought it was paradise so I went back to Bali packed my things and returned. First I lived in BKK then went to Pattaya and knew I would stay. The gay scene was so vibrant and living in general was so easy.
After reading the new regulations and almost daily stops by traffic police as well as witnessing the huge decline in the gay scene I've asked myself if it were today that was my first time in L.O.S. would I be keen to become an expat? My answer is a resounding NO!

I stay at the moment because it still is a relatively inexpensive place to live, I know many people, and I have access to decent healhcare however, I am rethinking my options.Thank god I already sold my condo and now am only renting.

[Gaybutton]

would I be keen to become an expat? My answer is a resounding NO!

If you decide to leave Thailand, where are you considering as your next place to live, and why there (wherever it is)?

[Undaunted]

My hope is when the new election takes place the current anti foreigner government (othe than the Chinese) is replaced by a pro foreigner government.

[Jun]

The difficult "where are you considering as your next place to live" question was sidestepped there.

No matter how much the gay scene has shrank & so on, you would still need a better destination.
I can't think of one right now, certainly not with a gay scene of the type & scale that you get in Thailand.

[fountainhall]

Isn’t one problem in making the decision on where to retire the fact that the world now is changing so quickly? If you are mainly after a nightly gay scene and perhaps companionship with other expats, Thailand was the obvious up till a few years ago. In recent years, though, everything here has been changing so fast and Thailand’s attractions are less obvious. Personally I cannot see it improving. Thailand is moving upmarket. It wouldn’t surprise me after the latest retirement visa debacle if every retiree will be forced to move up to the more expensive Thailand Elite programme.

I read in chat rooms that guys around 50 are trying to decide where to retire in I0-12 years. time. I believe that is way too early. How does anyone know what Thailand, Cambodia and other countries will be like for retiring foreigners in a dozen years?

Had I known that Taiwan would change so rapidly in its attitude both to gays and retirees, I would have been tempted to move there. 90 day visas on arrival are available for many countries and if you have a Taiwan partner soon you will get an open-ended visa. Gay marriage should be on the statute books by next summer according to last year’s Supreme Court decision. And the gay scene continues to expand. But I made my decision 19 years ago.

[Jun]

I read in chat rooms that guys around 50 are trying to decide where to retire in I0-12 years. time. I believe that is way too early. How does anyone know what Thailand, Cambodia and other countries will be like for retiring foreigners in a dozen years?

You are right in that people should not be trying to DECIDE where to retire in 10~12 years time, but thinking about it and doing a little preparation is no bad thing.
For example, if you want to retire in Asia, then it can make sense to invest some of your money in Asia, so you don't suddenly find that a 50% fall in the value of the pound over 10 years makes it too expensive. Also, it may make sense to visit some candidate retirement countries over the years.

Also, I'm not convinced you have to be tied to any one country. Of course, if you buy a property, then it's a little harder to exit. However, investing in stocks and renting is a perfectly valid way of surviving.
Any 50 year olds planning to retire imminently may on average, have ~30 years ahead of them & they could easily choose to live in several countries over that period.

Also, I'm still not hearing where is a better place than Thailand. Of course, it does to some extent depend on what you want in terms of climate, lifestyle, gay scene, costs, entertainment etc.
I would imagine Taiwan has to be more expensive & although there's a gay scene, I imagine you're relying on charm and good looks to get someone into bed. When there is a >30 year age gap, simply paying someone >1000 baht seems to be a more reliable method. If there are money boys, then I imagine they cost somewhat more.

Also, if you go somewhere like Thailand or Cambodia, tourism is important, so the net result is many shops & restaurants in the major destinations have English menus and English speaking staff. Which makes life easier.
If you go to Tokyo, well most restaurants can make enough off local customers, so many don't have English menus & spoken English can be poor. It's still possible to eat, but if you want control over what lands on your plate, it's necessary to be very selective over a choice of restaurants.
I'm not sure how Taiwan compares with this, but could imagine some similarities to Japan.
Also, it comes with a slight political risk from China.

As for the shrinking gay scene in Thailand, well the drivers of that, such as phone app dating are present all over the world.
Even Berlin had about 3 saunas 5 years ago and is now down to one.

Finally, I'm still interested to know where Undaunted is thinking of moving to.

[Undaunted]

I'm still interested to know where Undaunted is thinking of moving to.

Jun you needn't worry. When I know you will be the first I'll tell

[Jun]

I'm still interested to know where Undaunted is thinking of moving to.

Jun you needn't worry. When I know you will be the first I'll tell

Thank you. Might there be a shortlist ? One of the 'stans perhaps ? Although, I think Thailand might just have the edge over those.

[Undaunted]

Afghanistan.......

[fountainhall]

I would imagine Taiwan has to be more expensive & although there's a gay scene, I imagine you're relying on charm and good looks to get someone into bed. When there is a >30 year age gap, simply paying someone >1000 baht seems to be a more reliable method. If there are money boys, then I imagine they cost somewhat more.

Taipei is slightly more expensive in terms of rent - certainly buying there is a great deal more expensive. But everything else is about the same as Bangkok. Getting around the city is a breeze and public transport is way better, more extensive and cheaper. But you don’t have to live in Taipei. Most other cities are less expensive.

There is a lot of sex available if that’s what you are looking for. As I have said before, it is not as “in your face” as in Thailand. If you are a westerner in your 40s, 50s, 60s and even early 70s, there is sex aplenty. Many guys in their late teens, early 20s and older are as attracted to mature western guys as they are elsewhere in the region. Part of the reason, according to my Taiwan friends, is the lack of western guys there. So we are in demand. I am sure there must be play for cash but I rarely see it. So sex tends to be free - or merely costs a train or bus fare. Think of how much that would save your average expat in Pattaya!

The difference is that it takes a little more time. On the other hand, if you are prepared to take that time, you end up without having to pay off fees and tips. Another occasional poster here from Australia and Christianpfc found sex very easy to come by there.

For those seeking summer weather all year round, Taiwan does not fit the bill unless you settle in the very far south. Here the beaches are better than Pattaya and the waters are crystal clear. Far better swimming even than in Phuket. Elsewhere you are looking at four reasonable separate seasons. You also have to be aware that typhoons rip through the island several times a year and you will experience the occasional earthquake. Then again, the island is geared up for them, unlike many parts of North America!

Just like anywhere else, I would not recommend anyone select Taiwan for retirement without first making a few visits. But if Thailand does become increasingly difficult for retirees, it is a place to consider. Taiwanese guys are amongst the most handsome anywhere in the region, visas are easy, the government is making definite efforts to make it easier to retire there, gay marriage will almost certainly be recognized by next summer . . . There are a lot less pleasant places for retirement!