Yet Another Immigration Question

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Gaybutton
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#31 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby Gaybutton » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:13 pm

fountainhall wrote:hat is done by going down to the bank machines in the basement, taking out or depositing an amount that can be as low as Bt. 100 and then going to the passbook update machine.

I see. Ok, then welcome to the next addition to my "I Don't Get It" list. When you update your passbook, it shows exactly how much is in your bank account at the time of the update and also will show whether you've had the required 800,000 baht for 3 months. I don't understand why withdrawing or depositing 100 baht or so would make the slightest bit of difference, but as I said, either do it their way or no retirement visa.

I wish I could make sense out of it. I can't.

I wouldn't have the guts to do it, but I would love for somebody to walk into immigration with a passbook that shows 799,999 baht has been in the account for 3 months, and then see if they deny the visa. My guess is that's exactly what they would do.

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#32 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby Jun » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:54 am

Undaunted wrote:If people are unable to keep the minimum of 800,000 baht here perhaps they shouldn't be here and perhaps they should not have retired when they did also I see nothing wrong with making retirees show proof of medical ins. in the kingdom.

Exactly.

Any scheme to BUY residency rights in countries that have such an option usually has a cost attached. Probably because the countries want immigrants who can pay their way, rather than be a burden.

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#33 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby mahjongguy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:55 am

fountainhall wrote:I am told by the Immigration lawyer who helps me that a fixed account does not satisfy Bangkok Immigration. It has to be a savings account.

The office in Bangkok will accept any of these three types of account:
- regular Thai baht savings account
- foreign currency account valued at 800,000 baht or more
- fixed accounts where the money is readily accessible

They will not accept accounts that contain stock or bond funds because their value may decrease.

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#34 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby Bob » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:25 am

fountainhall wrote:Bangkok Immigration requires that immediately prior to meeting the Immigration officer to apply for the annual retirement renewal, the bank book is updated as some form of secondary confirmation that the Bt. 800,000 is still intact. That is done by going down to the bank machines in the basement, taking out or depositing an amount that can be as low as Bt. 100 and then going to the passbook update machine. That updated page then needs to be photocopied and added to the other papers presented to the Immigration officer.

I don't question what you've been required to do or have in fact done; however, I can say that what you say is required hasn't ever been required at CM Immigration.

I fully understand the bank letter requirement as that's universal for those doing the 800k baht thing; however, the updating thing makes zero sense for those maintaining term accounts like I and many of my CM friends do. For example only (and this has been the same thing for years), I keep the 800k in a separate term account with SCB and extended my annual deal at the end of April of this year. At that time, my passbook for that separate account reflected that the deposit occurred and 12 month term began in December of 2017 and matured in December of this year. That's all it said and there was zero issue about it. And NO updating is even possible with that account (whether you stick that passbook in the machine or hand it over to a bank teller asking for any current updating, nothing is or can be typed in the passbook). That is true, as I understand, of every term account (a regular savings account can, of course, can be updated whenever by adding or subtracting a little.....but you can't add or subtract to the typical term account).

I'm presuming you (Fountainhall) had a regular savings account able to be added to, subtracted from, and updated. For those who keep term accounts for the 800k deal (which is everyone I know who uses the bank deposit method up here), that's simply not possible.

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#35 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby Bob » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:41 am

fountainhall wrote:I am told by the Immigration lawyer who helps me that a fixed account does not satisfy Bangkok Immigration. It has to be a savings account.

As noted earlier, I and all my friends up here in Chiangmai who use the 800k deposit method have term accounts that are acceptable to Immigration - because they are the type of term accounts you can take out the money whenever you want (but you'll lose all accrued interest if you should do so). A true cd account (one where you cannot get your money until the account matures) wouldn't be acceptable. I'm surprised, though, that your Bangkok bank doesn't have the type of term accounts we use up here (all the CM banks offer these term accounts).

While I do the separate term account thing for mainly two reasons (to have a chunk of cash available if ever needed for an emergency and, secondarily, to support extensions based on retirement), a third but lesser important reason is to earn semi-reasonable interest on the money which is far better than the interest banks offer back in the US.

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#36 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby odd » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:11 am

Re Post 18. What an old fuss-pot you are. The SHE is the lady to whom one hands all the paperwork to at the Immigration desk inside the building. I am sorry I did not ask her her name! The update has to be done to show RECENT ACTIVITY in the account. I hope that as you use capitals I may also be allowed to. I see that someone on here has since verified my version of affairs.

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#37 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby fountainhall » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:41 am

As has been stated several times before on various related threads over the years, what works in one Immigration office does not necessarily work in another. The interpretation of the law seems to be up to individual officers or supervisors. Posters here can give their experiences and the legal advice they have received. But the only way to find out exactly what is required is either to check the options on your own at your Immigration office or pay a small amount and obtain legal advice from a lawyer in your area. Everything else ends up being either a "he said" but "he said".

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#38 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby Gaybutton » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:53 am

odd wrote:Re Post 18. What an old fuss-pot you are.

Whaddya mean old . . . ?!?!?



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#39 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby Gaybutton » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:55 am

fountainhall wrote:the only way to find out exactly what is required is either to check the options on your own at your Immigration office or pay a small amount and obtain legal advice from a lawyer in your area. Everything else ends up being either a "he said" but "he said".

That's right. It seems like every one of these immigration offices do things differently. It is not even uncommon for individual immigration officers within the same office to do things differently.

But don't worry. If by the time anyone needs to go to immigration after a month or two, don't be surprised if the rules change yet again.

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#40 Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Postby 2lz2p » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:32 pm

Fountainhall:
I am told by the Immigration lawyer who helps me that a fixed account does not satisfy Bangkok Immigration. It has to be a savings account. Friends have confirmed this is what they have also been told. But I can not swear to it as I have never tried any method other than the savings account route.


As mentioned in a later posting, the money can be in an account offering greater interest if held in the account for a specific term. But, there can be no restriction on withdrawal of funds from the account at any time (penalty is loss of higher interest rate). These type of accounts are also satisfactory for Pattaya Immigration. However, if there is a restriction that does not allow withdrawal at anytime, they will not be accepted.

GB:
GB: I see. Ok, then welcome to the next addition to my "I Don't Get It" list. When you update your passbook, it shows exactly how much is in your bank account at the time of the update and also will show whether you've had the required 800,000 baht for 3 months. I don't understand why withdrawing or depositing 100 baht or so would make the slightest bit of difference, but as I said, either do it their way or no retirement visa.

I wish I could make sense out of it. I can't.

I wouldn't have the guts to do it, but I would love for somebody to walk into immigration with a passbook that shows 799,999 baht has been in the account for 3 months, and then see if they deny the visa. My guess is that's exactly what they would do.


As mentioned in my previous post, the PCEC's Immigration Update about the account having to have recent activity, the reports may be reporting on the requirements of one Immigration Officer and, thus not a specific policy followed by the other Officers. As to reason, I agree it doesn't make sense, but what is required to prove you meet the rules is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer - thus the various differences between Immigration Offices on specific documents they require and even among Officers within the same office. The PCEC update notes this, but provides the information so that retirees are aware that it has happened and could happen to them. As GB notes, if you don't do it their way, then no retirement extension.

As GB surmises, if your passbook shows 799,999 for 3 months, they would deny the extension. Right! I was talking with someone about a month ago who had the 800,000 in their account for almost the full 3 months, but let it drop to slightly below that when they used their debit card for a purchase. They immediately thereafter went to their bank and deposited the funds necessary to bring it above 800k. Immigration said "No" to granting an extension - so they had to leave Thailand and return on 30 day visa exempt and immediately apply for a Non-Immigrant O visa that gave them 90 days when it was issued - after 60 days had elapsed, they could then apply for the one year extension (since it was a "new" application rather than a renewal, they only had to have the funds in the bank 2 months).


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