13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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thewayhelooks
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#201 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby thewayhelooks » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:11 am

Elon Musk has questioned the expertise of Thai rescue officials who turned down his offer of a submarine, despite their having organised the successful rescue of all 12 boys and their football coach from a flooded cave.

www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/10/el ... -officials

Is he a whiney little bitch or is he right?

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#202 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Captain Swing » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:21 am

thewayhelooks wrote:Is he a whiney little bitch or is he right?

Whiny little bitch, who's making a fool of himself. He'll be a long time living this down.

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#203 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:54 am

Captain Swing wrote:Whiny little bitch, who's making a fool of himself. He'll be a long time living this down.

I don't understand that attitude. I don't see that there is anything for him to have to live down. On the contrary, I think he should be highly praised. He came to Thailand with his team members and his technology, at his own expense, and he came to help if needed. He is also leaving the mini sub and giving it to Thailand for free in case a need for it ever arises.

I don't think he resents that it was not used. If they were not able to pump out enough water, they might very well have needed it. It was entirely possible that the mini sub and/or his waterproof tubes might have been the key to the entire rescue if the rains came and the pumps couldn't keep up with rising water. The rescue operation was very fortunate about the weather. If that had not happened the dive rescue may not have been possible.

I see what Musk did as a very generous offer of help. I think calling him names is unjustified and uncalled for. Would you prefer that he and his team had never come and had never offered his technology to help if it was needed?

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#204 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby fountainhall » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:09 pm

I also don't understand that attitude - up to a point. He tried to do something. Hundreds of others in their own way also tried and their help was vital to the success of the mission.

I also think the former Chiang Rai governor was right. Looking at the photos of that mini-sub, I have no idea how it could possibly have worked because part of the escape was under water and part on foot. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how it would have navigated some of the sections involving incredibly tight turns that were not in water (see page 17, post 166 above).

But he tried.

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#205 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:19 pm

fountainhall wrote:II have no idea how it could possibly have worked

It probably could not have worked, but apparently he didn't know whether it could help or not before bringing the mini sub. Either way, the mini sub must be extremely expensive, but he didn't take it back. He gave it to Thailand. And if it needs parts, maintenance, and service, I'll bet he'll provide that too, free of charge.

I didn't see anyone else in the world of great individual wealth offering anything at all out of their own pockets.

His waterproof tubes might have worked, but even if that idea couldn't work, if needed he and his people would have tried to work out another technology that might have been able to the job and get those boys safely out of there.

Also, he brought and donated those high tech batteries for the pumps. I believe they did use those.

I also believe the only reason they managed to successfully accomplish the rescue without help from Musk was because of the luck with the weather.

If indeed weather circumstances did cause a need Musk's help and what he might have provided would have saved the lives of those boys, then instead of calling him a "whiny little bitch" he would be called a hero.

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#206 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Captain Swing » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:33 pm

I'm sure you read the linked article. I think he comes across as ungracious, to say the least, in his comments about the Thai leading the rescue operation, especially considering the astounding success of the operation. If there were deficiencies in the operation, I don't think this is the time for a foreigner to be pointing them out:


"Elon Musk has questioned the expertise of Thai rescue officials who turned down his offer of a submarine, despite their having organised the successful rescue of all 12 boys and their football coach from a flooded cave....

...In response, Musk said Osatanakorn was “not the subject matter expert”, adding that he believed he had been “inaccurately described as rescue chief”, and should be more accurately referred to as the “former Thai provincial governor”.


"I don't think he resents that it was not used." I'm surprised you say that. I think that's precisely how he comes across. The Thai rescue chief thanked him for his efforts and politely declined using his submarine. To use it, unproven and experimental as it was, would have involved completely abandoning the complicated plan that had been developed, ON SCENE, over the course of almost a week, in favor of Musk's plan which he had just flown in with.

No doubt Musk meant well, but I think he showed a little too much arrogance, and his generosity seemed to me to be a little bit tinged with self-promotion.

The brief quote from the thoughtful column PeterUK linked to I think shows I'm not the only one who feels this way: "Then the light relief of the grandstanding Elon Musk sending a tiny submarine."

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#207 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:38 pm

Captain Swing wrote:No doubt Musk meant well, but I think he showed a little too much arrogance, and his generosity seemed to me to be a little bit tinged with self-promotion.

Even if that is true, and I don't see it that way, so what? He was there to help. If he was a bit arrogant and self-serving, again so what?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree with your attitude at all. Do you truly believe he made a fool of himself and has something he has to live down? You'll have to go a very long way to get me agreeing with that.

I'll repeat my question: Would you prefer that he and his team had never come and had never offered his technology to help if it was needed?

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#208 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby fountainhall » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:05 pm

Captain Swing wrote:The brief quote from the thoughtful column PeterUK linked to I think shows I'm not the only one who feels this way: "Then the light relief of the grandstanding Elon Musk sending a tiny submarine."

In a thread that moves so quickly, it is perfectly understandable that some posts are missed. With all respect to PeterUK, I earlier posted that Guardian Opinion piece in full (page 19, post #189).

I agree wholeheartedly that Elon Musk's mini-submarine and visit to Chiang Rai (for him it was simply a diversion as he was actually en route to Shanghai where he had well publicised meetings yesterday) was a bit of light relief. And goodness knows, in such a tense time, some light relief can often be of some value. The antics of Shakespeare's Fool in King Lear actually heightens the drama.

And we should not ignore comments in the article Captain Swing refers to which confirm that Musk was specifically asked to continue working on a possible solution.

Musk posted an image of his email correspondence with Dick Stanton, the British diver who first made contact with the football squad and their coach, in which Stanton asked the inventor to keep working on a project that could potentially bear fruit.

But surely this is all so irrelevant. Our focus should be on the boys, their coach and all those in the team that rescued them. This story still has a long way to go before these boys can get back to normality. With invitations from top Spanish Club Barcelona to take part in its annual Academy International Tournament and to attend matches at its Camp Nou Stadium, from Benfica (a top Portuguese soccer team) for an all expenses paid trip to spend a week at its Lisbon training academy, and from Manchester United for both the team and the rescuers to attend English Premier League matches at its Old Trafford Ground and English soccer players about to play in tonight's World Cup semi-final offering shirts, goalkeeping gloves and more, these boys are now international celebrities. Hopefully they will be able to handle this publicity as they reunite with their families and communities. After the stoicism and unflappability they have shown over the last two weeks, I am confident they will soon be able to take all this in their stride.

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#209 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Gaybutton » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:10 pm

fountainhall wrote:this is all so irrelevant. Our focus should be on the boys, their coach and all those in the team that rescued them.

Agreed. Let's please keep the topic focused on the boys rather than turning it into a topic about Elon Musk. I think enough has been said about Elon Musk. We've already expressed our opinions about Musk. Not much point in posting anything more about him. Let's get back to the boys.

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#210 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Captain Swing » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:29 pm

I'm perfectly happy to withdraw "whiny little bitch." I probably wouldn't have come up with that phrase on my own anyway; I only used it because there were only two options offered! But I think you misunderstood my comments. I wasn't criticizing Musk's offer of help and his bringing his submarine. Yes, he deserves full credit for trying. But that was all moot anyway once the boys were safe. What I felt he would have to live down was his apparent petulance and his unjustified and unkind comments about the "Former Thai Provincial Governor." It came across as a cheap shot by someone who had had his feelings hurt by having his advice ignored and his contribution declined. Maybe he didn't mean it quite that way, but I feel he injected the only sour note (so far) on what was otherwise a universally joyous occasion--THAT was what made him look foolish, to me. Whiny and bitch-like even! Chances are he won't have to live it down because few people will have noticed it anyway, and it will be quickly forgotten amongst the general celebration. In fact I think I'm starting to forget it already, but that might be the Alzheimer's kicking in.

P.S. He still reminds me of Tom Swift, even if no one else knows who that is.


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